Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
NaOH Problem
Author Message
Bassman Offline
Member
***

Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #1
NaOH Problem
I have just finished my 4th cell. I have built 3 cells with 3.5" X 5" plates in a 4" pipe that holds about 1 quart of liquid. I am using NaOH granules, not liquid. It says on the container that it is 100% pure. I mixed 1 teaspoon to a quart of water and each unit will draw about 3.5 amps. I increased the solution to 4 teaspoons and raised the current to 7.5 amps.
My last cell is designed after the Smacks Dry cell and has 6" X 6" plates with 1/8" o-rings. It is about 5.5" X 5.5" inside the o-rings. It holds about 3/4 quart of liquid. I started with a mix of 1 teaspoon to a quart and it started out at 2.5 amps. I increased the strength to 4 teaspoons and the starting current was 4 amps with the cell at 40 degrees F. It increased to 5.8 amps in 30 minutes and heated up to 67 degrees F.
I keep reading about everyone pulling high currents and I can't seem to get there. I was wondering if using granules versus liquid is my problem and should I increase the strength of my solution?

Each cell is on a different vehicle and the dry cell is just setting on the bench without a storage tank connected to it.
12-11-2008 12:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
john m Offline
Member
***

Posts: 18
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #2
RE: NaOH Problem
My system is about twice the size of yours and on initial fill I started with 15 level teaspoons which put me at 12a. I drove it around to warm it up and it was only drawing 15a so I added 5 more. I use the Roebic granuales in mine but I just kept upping the concentration until I got the amps close to what I wanted. I added a lot of water for leaks and built a new bubbler/reservior while moving my mix to it so I don't know my final numbers but I'm pretty sure I'm near 30 tsp by now and its drawing right at 30a temp is 120-130f. I hope to fix the last few leaks this weekend then start with a new mix so I know what I'm working with but I think you might keep adding slowly untill you get the amps up where you want but just make sure it's warmed up when you check.
One thing to consider is the load on the charging system. Now with the headlights on at idle my volt meter starts dropping but recovers as soon as the rpms come up. My driving is all highway but I wouldn't take a chance at this many amps if you have a small engine/alt and do a lot of city driving or stop and go. I've only been running a few weeks so I'm no expert and there's a lot of support here so someone will let you know if i'm wrong. We'll get there. john.
12-11-2008 02:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mrbillr Offline
Member
***

Posts: 141
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #3
RE: NaOH Problem
john m Wrote:My system is about twice the size of yours and on initial fill I started with 15 level teaspoons which put me at 12a. I drove it around to warm it up and it was only drawing 15a so I added 5 more. I use the Roebic granuales in mine but I just kept upping the concentration until I got the amps close to what I wanted. I added a lot of water for leaks and built a new bubbler/reservior while moving my mix to it so I don't know my final numbers but I'm pretty sure I'm near 30 tsp by now and its drawing right at 30a temp is 120-130f. I hope to fix the last few leaks this weekend then start with a new mix so I know what I'm working with but I think you might keep adding slowly untill you get the amps up where you want but just make sure it's warmed up when you check.
One thing to consider is the load on the charging system. Now with the headlights on at idle my volt meter starts dropping but recovers as soon as the rpms come up. My driving is all highway but I wouldn't take a chance at this many amps if you have a small engine/alt and do a lot of city driving or stop and go. I've only been running a few weeks so I'm no expert and there's a lot of support here so someone will let you know if i'm wrong. We'll get there. john.

Your plate gap will effect your electrolyte mix. What gap are you using? A closer gap, then a weaker mix is required. As has been posted here several places, about a 1/16 inch gap is the optimum spacing to shoot for.

MrBill
2008 f250 XLT 6.4 diesel 2x4 automatic extended cab
12-11-2008 03:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Milosm Offline
Member
***

Posts: 67
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #4
RE: NaOH Problem
Bassman Wrote:I have just finished my 4th cell. I have built 3 cells with 3.5" X 5" plates in a 4" pipe that holds about 1 quart of liquid. I am using NaOH granules, not liquid. It says on the container that it is 100% pure. I mixed 1 teaspoon to a quart of water and each unit will draw about 3.5 amps. I increased the solution to 4 teaspoons and raised the current to 7.5 amps.
My last cell is designed after the Smacks Dry cell and has 6" X 6" plates with 1/8" o-rings. It is about 5.5" X 5.5" inside the o-rings. It holds about 3/4 quart of liquid. I started with a mix of 1 teaspoon to a quart and it started out at 2.5 amps. I increased the strength to 4 teaspoons and the starting current was 4 amps with the cell at 40 degrees F. It increased to 5.8 amps in 30 minutes and heated up to 67 degrees F.
I keep reading about everyone pulling high currents and I can't seem to get there. I was wondering if using granules versus liquid is my problem and should I increase the strength of my solution?

Each cell is on a different vehicle and the dry cell is just setting on the bench without a storage tank connected to it.

from your discription ,you must be running your generator with 6 neutrals. Remove one and your current will go up, I wouldn't draw more then 10 amps,this way you won't overload your electrical system. Doug.
12-11-2008 06:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Bassman Offline
Member
***

Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #5
RE: NaOH Problem
Milosm Wrote:from your discription ,you must be running your generator with 6 neutrals. Remove one and your current will go up, I wouldn't draw more then 10 amps,this way you won't overload your electrical system. Doug.

My dry cell is running with 5 neutrals. ( -NNNNN+NNNNN- ). It is going to be installed on a older 1989 Chevy pickup with a large charging system and not a lot of electronics, so I am going to shoot for about 15 amps. I have a lot of room for a storage tank, so I'm going to make it as large as possible. Probably around a gallon so as to make it run as cool as possible. Since we already have cool weather here ( Oklahoma ), It will probably have to be re-adjusted as soon as we start getting hot weather.

I will have a PWM installed on it and was wondering if it could have a stronger solution then needed as long as I control the amps?
I guess I had a misunderstanding about the solution strength as I thought that most people were getting high currents with a very weak solution and I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong. Next week, I will start building my storage tank and mounting the dry cell and I will start adjusting the solution then.
Thanks for the replies and helping me better understanding what I need to do next.
12-12-2008 09:26 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Milosm Offline
Member
***

Posts: 67
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #6
RE: NaOH Problem
Bassman Wrote:
Milosm Wrote:from your discription ,you must be running your generator with 6 neutrals. Remove one and your current will go up, I wouldn't draw more then 10 amps,this way you won't overload your electrical system. Doug.

My dry cell is running with 5 neutrals. ( -NNNNN+NNNNN- ). It is going to be installed on a older 1989 Chevy pickup with a large charging system and not a lot of electronics, so I am going to shoot for about 15 amps. I have a lot of room for a storage tank, so I'm going to make it as large as possible. Probably around a gallon so as to make it run as cool as possible. Since we already have cool weather here ( Oklahoma ), It will probably have to be re-adjusted as soon as we start getting hot weather.

I will have a PWM installed on it and was wondering if it could have a stronger solution then needed as long as I control the amps?
I guess I had a misunderstanding about the solution strength as I thought that most people were getting high currents with a very weak solution and I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong. Next week, I will start building my storage tank and mounting the dry cell and I will start adjusting the solution then.
Thanks for the replies and helping me better understanding what I need to do next.

Again: remove one more neutral from both generators and your current will go up. You could also reduce the space between the plates that will also help, 1/16" spacing would require less concintration then that for 1/8" spacing, but you need some space between the plates for the gas to escape.As for solution strength, if you had a single cell and adjust the current to a specified value, you would have to increase the concintration by the number of times as the number of neutrals you have solution to maintain the same current value.
if you need more explanation PM me. Doug.
12-12-2008 12:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Bassman Offline
Member
***

Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #7
RE: NaOH Problem
I increased the strength of the solution on my pickup wet cell and brought up the current to 10 amps. The output looked real good. The next day I had to pull a loaded trailer for 100 miles. After 30 miles, my scangauge was showing 16 mpg average and still climbing and then it started to drop. I found that one of the connections got hot and melted a hole in the lid. But the mpg wasn't bad pulling about 2000 lbs with a Crew cab pickup.
I have taken it apart and this time I will weld stainless bolts to the plates so as to not have that problem again. I'll give another report on it after it is repaired and I get to drive it again.
My Dry cell is still being treated and I probably won't get it mounted till after the holidays.
Temperature in Oklahoma is 20 degrees and sleet covering the ground. Not a good time to test HHO.
12-14-2008 10:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dogman Offline
Member
***

Posts: 39
Joined: Sep 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #8
RE: NaOH Problem
You could be in North Dakota where the current temp at noon is -23 degrees with windchill of -45 degrees. Odd thing I noticed while driving today was watching intake air temp on scangauge reading -17, my LTFT was registering -2 on the highway going against strong headwind at 65 mph. When it was warmer outside, under similar conditions of wind and mph, LTFT usually was +2. Is the cooler air helping fuel trim? My mpg was showing about what it usually would under those conditions (~21mpg).

Doug
2003 Buick Lesabre Limited
3.8L V6
Minot, ND
12-15-2008 10:06 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)