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Need Advice to Sensor problem
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freddyhho Offline
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Post: #1
Need Advice to Sensor problem
Hi, again, its been a while I made a post, due to lack of time,but from the last time I scream my 33% gains and then the ECU (I think) reverted the mileage gained, I do more test to see what config. liked to the ECU. I start to use the EFIE in the 0.50millivolts and the signal stop to go out of the range of operation (.100 to 1.100millivolts normal range) and start to see a little MPG (1.5 mpg), this time is real. But the ECU start to show a CEL light, the error code is (37) related to BAROMETRIC PRESSURE READ SOLENOID, I can't find more info. in the internet so this is the question.

Who knows what is this mean, and where is located this Solenoid?

1995 Dodge Ram 2500
V8 5.9L 360
Tero Dry Cell 19 plates (3 cells 5 neutrals)
MAP and EFIE Enhancers
Water Vaporizer
Gasoline Vaporizer
01-20-2009 06:26 PM
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ptours99 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Need Advice to Sensor problem
allpar chrysler computer codes
MAP Sensor and Barometric Pressure Read Solenoid

by Bob O’Neill and Bob Lincoln
The MAP sensor in Chrysler cars

The air inside the intake manifold and atmospheric or barometric pressure is sensed by the Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor, which sends a signal to the ECU. The ECU uses this information along with data on the air’s temperature to infer the density of the air entering the combustion chamber, when calculating how much fuel to add to this mixture. This information is especially important at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) because the system does not use feedback from the oxygen sensor at that time. At idle, information from the MAP is used to regulate the AIS motor (setting the idle speed).

* In 1984 models the MAP sensor is above the ECU.
* On 1985 and 1986 models the MAP sensor is mounted to the ECU.
* Starting in 1987 the MAP sensor is mounted in the engine compartment on the passenger side firewall.

The MAP sensor is a strain gauge which changes its output voltage based on the amount of vacuum or boost it is connected to. This vacuum/boost signal moves a silicon diaphragm inside the MAP sensor. This diaphragm is thinner in the center than it is around the edges and is mounted with a vacuum below the chip. A steady 5v supply is provided by the ECU, so the voltage from the MAP shows the relative pressure of the manifold.

When vacuum or boost moves the diaphragm the resistance inside the strain gauge changes, altering the voltage it produces (within a range of .02 volts to 4.94 volts). The ECU uses this voltage to regulate fuel delivery. This chart describes the pressure-to-voltage relationship of the stock Mopar Turbo II MAP two-bar sensor:

Manifold Pressure
(relative sea level / absolute)


2 BarMAP Output
(Turbo II)

14.31psi / 29.01psi


4.90V

14.00psi / 28.70psi


4.84V

13.00psi / 27.70psi


4.67V

12.00psi / 26.70psi


4.50V

11.00psi / 25.70psi


4.33V

10.00psi / 24.70psi


4.16V

9.00psi / 23.70psi


3.99V

8.00psi / 22.70psi


3.82V

6.00psi / 20.70psi


3.47V

4.00psi / 18.70psi


3.13V

2.00psi / 16.70psi


2.79V

0.00psi / 14.70psi


2.45V

5.00inHg / 12.24psi


2.03V

10.00inHg / 9.78psi


1.61V

15.00inHg / 7.33psi


1.19V

20.00inHg / 4.87psi


0.77V

25.00inHg / 2.41psi


0.35V

29.10inHg / 0.40psi


0.02V

A problem with another system may set a MAP sensor code in the computer. For example, suppose the code is "MAP pneumatic circuit problem." This indicates that the powertrain control module did not see a drop in manifold pressure after the engine started. The most likely culprit is a cracked/loose vacuum hose running to the MAP sensor (though it could be the sensor itself). The computer now sees a wide-open throttle power demand and proceeds to cheerfully flood the engine while you're idling.

Dead MAP sensors are fairly common. When the MAP sensor goes, the result may be stalling, the engine stopping even at highway speed, or failure to stop. We were told that there is “an available air bleeder valve kit to prevent intermittent operation and premature failure of the MAP sensor. The valve allows a small amount of dry air into the MAP vacuum line to prevent a condensation buildup. It’s a low cost add-on, inquire at the dealer for the part. I used up six MAP sensors before finding out about this - haven't lost one since.”
The Barometric Pressure Read Solenoid

The MAP sensor input from the manifold to the atmosphere is switched by the Barometric Pressure Read solenoid. This solenoid is controlled by the logic module. It takes a reading of the barometric pressure to calculate incoming air density and uses this to control boost in turbo engines. At closed throttle the solenoid is momentarily activated. This happens one time per closure but not more frequently than every three minutes and this happens only within a certain engine speed band.

At idle, some engines may ‘miss’. This is because the computer continues to sample the outside barometric pressure using the MAP sensor. If this happens it can be ignored as it is a glitch in the software of the logic module.

While the logic module activates and deactivates the solenoid, it monitors the output of the solenoid driver. If it doesn’t see near 0 volts DC when turning the solenoid on or 12 volts when turning the solenoid off, there is either an open or shorted circuit. If this happens, it triggers a code 37.

LINKS: Stalling problems | Idle fixes and MAP sensor diagnostics | Driveability

Sensors, Switches, and Other Systems | Main Repairs Page | EEKs

selling an enclosure for the rear of cab semi truck 28''X20''X6'' CUSTOM MADE ALUMINUM TO HOUSE HHO GENERATORS AND INCLUDING A RESERVOIR BUBBLER AND REGULAR BUBBLR ptoures@sbcglobal.net usa only
01-21-2009 04:13 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Need Advice to Sensor problem
(01-20-2009 06:26 PM)freddyhho Wrote:  Hi, again, its been a while I made a post, due to lack of time,but from the last time I scream my 33% gains and then the ECU (I think) reverted the mileage gained, I do more test to see what config. liked to the ECU. I start to use the EFIE in the 0.50millivolts and the signal stop to go out of the range of operation (.100 to 1.100millivolts normal range) and start to see a little MPG (1.5 mpg), this time is real. But the ECU start to show a CEL light, the error code is (37) related to BAROMETRIC PRESSURE READ SOLENOID, I can't find more info. in the internet so this is the question.

Who knows what is this mean, and where is located this Solenoid?
Freddy:
An EFIE setting of .500 is pretty high; usually you should not go over .450. Chances are you got a CEL because your EFIE setting was too high. Turn down the EFIE to .250; make sure the engine is fully warmed up; about 15 minutes; check the EFIE again. Make sure it is at .250 or below. then, shut the truck off; disconnect both battery cables from the battery; touch the + cable to the - cable for 10 seconds. Make sure both cables are disconnected from the battery when you touch them together for 10 seconds. Reconnect the battery cables and I'll bet your CEL went away.

Freddy: with a 360 cubic inch engine you need at least 4 to 5 lpm HHO to get any gains at all. If you keep leaning out your mixture with those high EFIE settings without enough HHO you're going to burn an exhaust valve. Good Luck.
01-21-2009 05:50 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Need Advice to Sensor problem
I misread .50 as .050 the first time.

+1 Thomas Wink

Even .450 is way too high. Get it down to 200 mv and start there, slowly (over several daysHmm ) increasing in 50 mv increments.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
01-22-2009 08:04 PM
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freddyhho Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Need Advice to Sensor problem
Thanks for you're reply, I made an extensive inspection of all the hoses related whit vacuum and find 2 little hoses broken in the back of the engine, I change them and problem has gone whit the CEL.

By the way, I upgrade all the cables from my DRY CELL (from 12 to 8gauge)and gained 1.5Volts (from 12.2Volts before) in the measure of current (13.7Volts now), obviously the amps goes up and the rated production too, now when I start the pickup in the morning it draws 15amps. cold, and reach to almost 25amps. when hot.
Anyway, thank for all the support.

1995 Dodge Ram 2500
V8 5.9L 360
Tero Dry Cell 19 plates (3 cells 5 neutrals)
MAP and EFIE Enhancers
Water Vaporizer
Gasoline Vaporizer
01-23-2009 02:13 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Need Advice to Sensor problem
(01-23-2009 02:13 PM)freddyhho Wrote:  Thanks for you're reply, I made an extensive inspection of all the hoses related whit vacuum and find 2 little hoses broken in the back of the engine, I change them and problem has gone whit the CEL.

By the way, I upgrade all the cables from my DRY CELL (from 12 to 8gauge)and gained 1.5Volts (from 12.2Volts before) in the measure of current (13.7Volts now), obviously the amps goes up and the rated production too, now when I start the pickup in the morning it draws 15amps. cold, and reach to almost 25amps. when hot.
Anyway, thank for all the support.
Freddy:
You are a true scientist, an expert technician [we used to be called mechanics] and should be congradulated for your scientific, methodical way of problem solving. Everyone should tackle an HHO problem, CEL, no mpg gain, overheating, etc. the way you did. Keep us posted; what's the economy like in Mexico? How much, in dollars, is a gallon of gas? what's happening to real estate? New car sales? Used car sales? Inflation? Deflation? I value your observations because of your logical, methodical approach to HHO technology.
01-23-2009 05:45 PM
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freddyhho Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Need Advice to Sensor problem
(01-23-2009 05:45 PM)thomasbala Wrote:  
(01-23-2009 02:13 PM)freddyhho Wrote:  Thanks for you're reply, I made an extensive inspection of all the hoses related whit vacuum and find 2 little hoses broken in the back of the engine, I change them and problem has gone whit the CEL.

By the way, I upgrade all the cables from my DRY CELL (from 12 to 8gauge)and gained 1.5Volts (from 12.2Volts before) in the measure of current (13.7Volts now), obviously the amps goes up and the rated production too, now when I start the pickup in the morning it draws 15amps. cold, and reach to almost 25amps. when hot.
Anyway, thank for all the support.
Freddy:
You are a true scientist, an expert technician [we used to be called mechanics] and should be congradulated for your scientific, methodical way of problem solving. Everyone should tackle an HHO problem, CEL, no mpg gain, overheating, etc. the way you did. Keep us posted; what's the economy like in Mexico? How much, in dollars, is a gallon of gas? what's happening to real estate? New car sales? Used car sales? Inflation? Deflation? I value your observations because of your logical, methodical approach to HHO technology.

Thanks thomasbala, fist of all,I trying to put my sand grain to stop the contamination from exaust, in my country there is not so good laws to prevent this,and the gas from my point of view has a poor quality.
In Mexico the price of gas is 2.20 dlls. a gallon (87 octanes magna), and 2.60dlls. a gallon(premium gasoline), as you may guess, Mexico has been carried whit a high inflation to many years, I earned 3000dlls. aprox. a month (I'm a musician), have my house, a pickup and a nissan sentra, I'm a medium class people and is difficult to obtain a new car because you almost have to sell you're soul to the devil, the used cars has another tale, we can buy a semi new car in USA an imported, Why?, because is more cheap even paying importation.
I'm not considering a scientific, all I do is learning from the errors from mine and others from this forum, as well from the good advice from you, colchiro,mike, and every one on this forum.
Another update, the current from battery to dry cell change to 13.5volts and I made just one change, I put another neutral to my cell, (before 4n3 16 plates) to ( 5n3 19 plates),the amps drop from 25 when hot to 19 amps. and the production stay the same, but whit a range of operation much colder from the cell.
And put a 11 plates dry cell to my father pickup, ( a nissan 1984 2.5L) and the results was almost to the instant, now he is doing the math. to post the results.

BTW. I learned how to make a sound recording engineer in 6 months, all by myself, and I'm apply almost the same method to reach my goals whit hho, I think the secret is persistence,persistence,persistence.Thanks to all.

1995 Dodge Ram 2500
V8 5.9L 360
Tero Dry Cell 19 plates (3 cells 5 neutrals)
MAP and EFIE Enhancers
Water Vaporizer
Gasoline Vaporizer
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2009 10:59 PM by freddyhho.)
01-24-2009 10:33 PM
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