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Neutral plates waste of time?
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MadScientist Offline
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Post: #1
Neutral plates waste of time?
In all my readings, it appears that neutral plates are ONLY used to reduce the voltage in the plate gap to a max of 2.4 volts. Here's a quote from ZeroFossilFuels;
Q: Why do you use neutral plates?
A: Neutral plates form a series resistive network that divides the available input voltage across the plates for the optimum voltage/plate gap of 2.0-2.4V. If automotive charging systems were 2.3V I would not use neutral plates. If they were 4.6V I would use one neutral plate, etc etc. More than 2.4V per plate gap wastes energy in the form of heat.
(I have run across the 2.4V max per plate gap many other times as well, so I suspect it is pretty accurate. More than 2.4V and you risk thermal runaway. Less than 2.0V reduces your HHO output).
So in reality, using neutral plates is really a waste of good voltage, which could be better used to additional cells to produce HHO.
Am I missing something, or is my assessment accurate?
Thanks everyone.
10-10-2008 09:09 PM
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jonoflordevida Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Neutral plates waste of time?
Hi , Very interesting points raised and the general consensus is less volts less heat so neutral plates reduce the voltage. See my link "plate gap theory" where I reported our cell is running -NNN+NNN- with a gap of 15mm and low concentration of electrolyte. It´s running low amps 6 max and cooler than any other combination we tried. Maybe the bath principle is different to the "dry cell " arrangement. Don´t know but want some answers. Hope someone out there can explain. Best Jono
10-10-2008 11:38 PM
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MadScientist Offline
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RE: Neutral plates waste of time?
"Hi , Very interesting points raised and the general consensus is less volts less heat."

Yes, that is my understanding also. To be more specific; more volts = more heat. More heat = less catalyst resistance. Less resistance = more current draw. More current draw = more heat. More heat ...... and the cycle continues until you get thermal runaway and can't control the increased heat (or amps) anymore and you blow your fuses.

Also, based on my original assessment, is there any other purpose to using neutral plates other than just controlling the voltage between plate gaps?
10-11-2008 08:53 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Neutral plates waste of time?
More plates = more surface area = more output.

Neutral plates drop the voltage to optimal, meaning less heat, more efficient.

Wrapping those plates give you a very efficient cell.

You're putting too much thought into it, just do it.Wink

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
10-11-2008 09:02 AM
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MadScientist Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Neutral plates waste of time?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe more plates with a negative charge produce more output. During the electrolysis process, Oxygen emanates from the positive charged plates and Hydrogen from the negative charged plates. So adding neutral plates does nothing for more output. Their surface area is irrelevant.
10-11-2008 09:23 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Neutral plates waste of time?
You can't have a negative plate without a positive plate. Both produce gas.

Electrons flow from negative to positive. As a scientist, you should know that.Wink

If you had 12 negative plates and 1 positive plate, you'd be limited to the surface area of the positive plate. You'd have 11 wasted plates.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
10-11-2008 09:44 AM
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MadScientist Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Neutral plates waste of time?
Yes, that would be true. Both negative and positive plates produce gas (as stated earlier). My statement of "more plates with a negative charge..." did not mean just adding negative plates (my apologies if that's how it came across). My focus is on the function of the neutral plates. They use up voltage and produce no gas. True or False?
10-11-2008 10:07 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Neutral plates waste of time?
They DIVIDE your voltage and produce gas. My post 4 above said more surface area, meaning they do produce gas. Sorry, should have been more obvious.

Assume 12 volts on outside plates with this cell:

[+ N N N N -]

Now you have 2.4 volts between each set of plates. Inside surfaces of + and - plates produce gas as does both sides of all the neutral plates. Pretty efficient and practical cell. Could be more efficient by adding more plates so you have 2 volts each pair, but then you need a very strong electrolyte. I like to be in the area of 2.5 volts or less.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
10-11-2008 10:20 AM
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MadScientist Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Neutral plates waste of time?
EXCELLENT! Thank you for the clarification. I was unaware that the neutral plates actually produced gas. Do you know if they produce Oxygen or Hydrogen?
10-11-2008 10:31 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Neutral plates waste of time?
On each neutral plate, the side closest to the negative will be negative and the side closest to the pos will be pos.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
10-11-2008 01:04 PM
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