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New Digital EFIE
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cmac0351 Offline
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Post: #1
New Digital EFIE
I am wondering how the new digital EFIE works in contrast to the old one. Does it still add a voltage to the incoming o2 signal in the same way the old one does.

I am very familiar with the George Wiseman schematic that this forum's and ZeroFossilFuel's EFIE's are based on and how they work. What's the difference? Is there a schematic available?
04-22-2009 11:23 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #2
RE: New Digital EFIE
I assume you've seen this page: http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/store/index...cts_id=192

[Image: efie1comp.jpg]

Quote:NEW! The Latest Breakthrough in EFIE Technology!

The Digital Dual EFIE Deluxe is the first of a new family of products that we have developed. These devices should now be used for all narrow band oxygen sensors that are upstream of the catalytic converter. It has a number of important new features:

1. Can make the air/fuel mix much leaner than earlier designs. With this device you can lug down your engine, and often kill it if you set it too lean.

2. Absolutely rock steady adjustment no matter what temperature the environment. Will vary less than 1/2 of 1% over it's rated temperature range of -40 to 125 Centigrade.

3. Will work with older, "tired" oxygen sensors that should have been replaced. Other EFIE styles may require these to be replaced. Mind you, if they are old, they should still be replaced. But if they are working prior to your EFIE install, they will still work with this EFIE.

4. One adjustment knob modifies both sensors equally. These devices are much easier to set.

Note: If you need to treat sensors that are downstream from a catalytic converter, we do not recommend this device. Use our legacy style EFIE for these sensors, instead. These are intended for upstream sensors only.

It's my impression that the circuit still works in a similar fashion, adding a voltage onto the o2 signal, just with a more stable circuit. I also suspect the signal sent to the ecu has been optimized, which allows it to look more like a valid signal in conditions that would fail with the original efie. Maybe Mike can elaborate more.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
(This post was last modified: 04-22-2009 01:25 PM by colchiro.)
04-22-2009 01:21 PM
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cmac0351 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: New Digital EFIE
Yes that is the page that prompted my post. I sure hope he will elaborate more. That page says that these should be used instead of the old ones. I would love to build a new one for myself.

I would love to see plans or at least a schematic like one expects to see from the likes of Smack with his booster and ZeroFossilFuel with everything he comes up with.

If this new EFIE is significantly superior to the old version everyone is using, the HHO community needs to know how to improve and move forward.

- Chris

(04-22-2009 01:21 PM)colchiro Wrote:  I assume you've seen this page: http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/store/index...cts_id=192

[Image: efie1comp.jpg]

Quote:NEW! The Latest Breakthrough in EFIE Technology!

The Digital Dual EFIE Deluxe is the first of a new family of products that we have developed. These devices should now be used for all narrow band oxygen sensors that are upstream of the catalytic converter. It has a number of important new features:

1. Can make the air/fuel mix much leaner than earlier designs. With this device you can lug down your engine, and often kill it if you set it too lean.

2. Absolutely rock steady adjustment no matter what temperature the environment. Will vary less than 1/2 of 1% over it's rated temperature range of -40 to 125 Centigrade.

3. Will work with older, "tired" oxygen sensors that should have been replaced. Other EFIE styles may require these to be replaced. Mind you, if they are old, they should still be replaced. But if they are working prior to your EFIE install, they will still work with this EFIE.

4. One adjustment knob modifies both sensors equally. These devices are much easier to set.

Note: If you need to treat sensors that are downstream from a catalytic converter, we do not recommend this device. Use our legacy style EFIE for these sensors, instead. These are intended for upstream sensors only.

It's my impression that the circuit still works in a similar fashion, adding a voltage onto the o2 signal, just with a more stable circuit. I also suspect the signal sent to the ecu has been optimized, which allows it to look more like a valid signal in conditions that would fail with the original efie. Maybe Mike can elaborate more.
04-22-2009 01:51 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #4
RE: New Digital EFIE
(04-22-2009 01:51 PM)cmac0351 Wrote:  Yes that is the page that prompted my post. I sure hope he will elaborate more. That page says that these should be used instead of the old ones. I would love to build a new one for myself.

I would love to see plans or at least a schematic like one expects to see from the likes of Smack with his booster and ZeroFossilFuel with everything he comes up with.

If this new EFIE is significantly superior to the old version everyone is using, the HHO community needs to know how to improve and move forward.

- Chris

Chris, no doubt Mike improved the previous models at his expense so I doubt you'll find anything cheaper than a basic model, which I think he indicated wouldn't happen any time soon. I know he shelled out a lot of money for the wide band version. I doubt you'll find anything like this anywhere else.

If you feel this is something you can't live without and need it soon, I think this is your only choice.Wink

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
04-22-2009 02:09 PM
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Pinhead Offline
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Post: #5
RE: New Digital EFIE
The new EFIE being called digital, I suspect it works in the same fashion as the HAFC kit's O2ptimizer.

Instead of simply adding voltage to the incoming signal, it acts as a digital comparator. If the O2 signal is higher than the variable voltage (which is what you adjust) than the digital comparator outputs a high signal, or 0.75 to 0.9 volts. If the O2 sensor is outputting a lower voltage, than the digital comparator outputs a 0.15 to 0.25 volt signal. This assures that the waveform that the ECU sees looks as close to normal as possible.

However, without hearing from Mike, it is all conjecture at this point.
04-22-2009 03:24 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #6
RE: New Digital EFIE
If he tells you, he'll probably have to shoot you. Wink

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
04-22-2009 04:45 PM
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cmac0351 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: New Digital EFIE
I guess what I am used to is the people in the HHO community who are very willing to share information for free rather than saying, "If you want to see it, buy it from me."

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with that; if somebody works/spends time and money on something, he has that right. I just don't find that to be the norm with the well known people in this community.

Three examples of the class of people I am referring to are Smack with his booster; ZeroFossilFuel with his EFIE, PWM, and anything else he comes up with; and MadScientist from madcosm.com (who has turned his business project over to someone else due to flooding in his home).

All 3 of these examples post videos on youtube of their progress and discoveries, post plans to build their devices on their websites, and encourage people to build things for themselves. Smack has pdf's describing how to build his boosters and posts videos on youtube regularly. Zero has full schematics, wiring diagrams, pictures, and youtube videos showing how to build his constant current PWM and EFIE. The madcosm website has schematics and drawings of circuit boards so that anyone so inclined could build his own version of the product.

Each one of these examples sells his products and makes money from them. However, they CLEARLY are not in HHO for monetary benefit. They are EXTREMELY concerned with getting the technology in the hands of people. Obviously not everyone can build his own units, but there are those who can as well.

I think Mike has done some good things for HHO by putting up this forum, and building a quality product with great support. I personally think, though, that he should look at some of the examples in front of you that are doing ALL they can to further the advance of a great technology. If he wants to keep all this to himself and just sell a product for gain, then I think he is just not in the same league as some of the greats, sorry.
04-23-2009 04:51 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #8
RE: New Digital EFIE
Hi Guys,

I'm really sorry to take so long to answer this post. I've been very busy the last couple of days and haven't had the time needed to write the article about the new device. I should have it done today or tomorrow and will post a link to it in this thread. It's a little tricky to get across the concept of how it works without some diagrams, and the time consuming part has been creating them. But you are definitely not being ignored.

This device doesn't work the same as any device already available (that I know of). The other digital EFIEs are called "digital" because they have a digital pot to control them. This is cool and all, but really doesn't change the functioning of the EFIE at all. This is not to put a kibosh on naming these devices. They needed to do something to distinguish it from the George Weisman type EFIEs. But an analog pot can control an EFIE equally as well in actual fact. The reason we call ours "digital" is completely different and will be clear when I get the article up.

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04-23-2009 07:28 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: New Digital EFIE
Ok, here's the description of how the new EFIE works. It's a little tricky to convey clearly, so if you have questions about it, fire away. I can use any questions you have to improve the article to make it easier to understand.

The New Digital EFIE: A Better Approach to Oxygen Sensor Enhancement
(04-22-2009 03:24 PM)Pinhead Wrote:  The new EFIE being called digital, I suspect it works in the same fashion as the HAFC kit's O2ptimizer.

Instead of simply adding voltage to the incoming signal, it acts as a digital comparator. If the O2 signal is higher than the variable voltage (which is what you adjust) than the digital comparator outputs a high signal, or 0.75 to 0.9 volts. If the O2 sensor is outputting a lower voltage, than the digital comparator outputs a 0.15 to 0.25 volt signal. This assures that the waveform that the ECU sees looks as close to normal as possible.

However, without hearing from Mike, it is all conjecture at this point.

Hi Pinhead.

Yes this is how the new EFIE works exactly! I've never inspected the O2ptimizer so didn't know they used this design concept. However, this is the correct way to get the job done. You can see my post just above for a link to my new article that describes the concept.

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(This post was last modified: 04-23-2009 12:26 PM by mike.)
04-23-2009 12:15 PM
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Pinhead Offline
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Post: #10
RE: New Digital EFIE
(04-23-2009 12:15 PM)mike Wrote:  Ok, here's the description of how the new EFIE works. It's a little tricky to convey clearly, so if you have questions about it, fire away. I can use any questions you have to improve the article to make it easier to understand.

The New Digital EFIE: A Better Approach to Oxygen Sensor Enhancement
(04-22-2009 03:24 PM)Pinhead Wrote:  The new EFIE being called digital, I suspect it works in the same fashion as the HAFC kit's O2ptimizer.

Instead of simply adding voltage to the incoming signal, it acts as a digital comparator. If the O2 signal is higher than the variable voltage (which is what you adjust) than the digital comparator outputs a high signal, or 0.75 to 0.9 volts. If the O2 sensor is outputting a lower voltage, than the digital comparator outputs a 0.15 to 0.25 volt signal. This assures that the waveform that the ECU sees looks as close to normal as possible.

However, without hearing from Mike, it is all conjecture at this point.

Hi Pinhead.

Yes this is how the new EFIE works exactly! I've never inspected the O2ptimizer so didn't know they used this design concept. However, this is the correct way to get the job done. You can see my post just above for a link to my new article that describes the concept.

That's great! I can personally vouch that this method works. By using the article on tuning that mpgmike (Mike Holler) wrote, you can easily stall the engine out using this type of O2 modifier. I have the O2ptimizer and HAFC kit installed in my '99 F150 and when I was initially testing, I successfully leaned the mixture to the point that the engine would simply die off idle. Big Grin This new digital EFIE will make it much easier to adjust the tuning to match your fuel enhancements!
04-23-2009 12:38 PM
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