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New guy here, bare with me
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daemonus Offline
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Post: #1
New guy here, bare with me
Hey guys ! I am Chris and i am from Romania.

Since i bought a second car, a Nissan Patrol Y61 3.0 Di from 2000, my financiar resources became lower and lower and with the fuel price blow sky-high (almost 2USD/litre), i think its time to save some money. I bought this car for offroading and to carry heavier loads (800kg - 1.000kg).

The other car, a Hyundai Santa Fe 2WD from 2007 CRDI 2.2 Diesel engine, it's (despite its dimensions) a very economical car. Outside the city, the fuel consumption can get as high as 16l/100km at 190km/h or as low as 4.8l/100km at 100km/h. Of course, the small consumption cannot be obtained in a country where are 2 highways, the traffic is an inferno and so on. Inside the city, no matter the season, wont go under 10l/100km.

I bought today a Microreactor kit for my Santa Fe, as i found it very similar as working mode with the French ECONOKIT, but less pricey than the last one. I dont expect miracles, but since i make around 20.000km-30.000km/year i expect the price i paid to be recovered within a year, even the fuel economy is at the lowest value (15%).

So...a few questions:
a) if any of you is using this, are happy with it ?
b) i throw an close eye on the manufacturer website and at some point it says something about a mixture.
Quote from the website:
Quote:Open the filling tank plug, pre- mix the water and spirits, fill the water tank till 3/4.

So....what spirits are we talking about ? Ethanol....methanol ?

Maybe you wonder why i chose the Santa Fe and not the Patrol, since the Nissan it's a heavy consumer, specially under heavy terrain or heavy loads. I have fitted a water/meth injection system and i dont know if the microreactor will be effective.

Hope you understand my English, and i promise pictures as soon as i install the system.

Only the best,
Chris.
08-10-2012 11:32 AM
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daemonus Offline
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Post: #2
RE: New guy here, bare with me
Hey guys !

So much for that system...Sad I asked the seller for a refund. Last night i put all the pictures of the puzzle together and something is still fuzzy. There is a clip on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjF1PxOxIJg) that the guy that runs the business uploaded. That triggered something in my mind....a memory to be precise.

2 months ago, i cleaned the MAF sensor and something came up before i finished cleaning the thing. I had to go on the double. Put back the sensor, without waiting for it to dry. When i started the engine, it was a very strange noise, i shut it off imediately. What happened ? Vapours from medical alcohol that i used to clean the sensor were in the air admision hose, PRE-TURBO!!! and i was lucky the engine did not go BOOM!

Placing the "injection" point near the turbo - i am always reserved about that. Even Water/Meth injection mounted PRE-TURBO dramaticaly reduces the turbocharger's life. Further more, the vapours formed have a high temperature, but when they hit the intercooler, they will form drops of mixture that is not right for the engine.

So i asked the seller a full refund.

As you may notice, i dont say the system does not work for the purpose it was built, i am saying that in a Diesel engine the things are a little different from a petrol engine.

Also, keep in mind one thing: after cruising 100km @ 130km/h lets say, your EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) easily gets to 400oC. When you arrive at the destination and shut off the engine (even if you let it run iddle for 3 minutes), the temperature of the turbocharger or exhaust manifold right after turbo wont drop very very much, so the quantity of gas that is already in the reactor will spread into the pipes until it reaches the Intercooler, where it will transform again in the mixture it was in the first place. I certainly would not want to start the engine with something in my intercooler.

Thank you for baring with me.
08-10-2012 10:06 PM
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daemonus Offline
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Post: #3
RE: New guy here, bare with me
Despite of that i said a few weeks ago, i went ahead and bought the Microreactor kit. Could not make it work. Here are the facts:

a) the delivery was fast enough, the sender kept his word on this matter
b) installed the Microreactor the day it arrived. The Microreactor itself seemed a little big (in fact its a copper minibottle with to pipes, nothing is moving inside). I went through a lot to fit it on the exhaust, as i had to lift the car on an elevator in order to do that, take down to shields under the car. 3 hrs and 120 USD to to that. I forgot to mention that 50 USD was the intake hose i bought "just in case" - an used item, as if i would have bought it new it would have been over 150 USD.
c) the reactor itself was shinny and had an silver shine upon it - i found that after trying to fit. In fact, the reactor was made of copper, and had a shinny silver spray over it - i guess it's commercial stuff or so, the seller could answer that.
d) the water tank was drilled badly, as i found a leak present on it. Not such a big deal, but that was something that ringed a bell on me (a small one actually). Also, the small pipe that comes out of the tank was fitted there in a bad way, the firts time i plugged the hose it went off. I refitted that. Second bell.
e) the Venturi tube was something like a small fitting, hand cut, very difficult to seal it properly after tapping. Third bell.
f) after fitting all the system , i found out that bubbling came into the stage after 3.500 rpm - only on heavy driving i get that RPM, and only for a short period. I have tried everything possible to make the system work:
- i tryied to see if there are any leaks - none present
- i gave up the original Venturi element and made my own - the vacuum caused bubbling at 3000 rpm - there by, a gain of 500rpm,gain that comes with its price - the intake surface of the hose was blocked off by 50% - the Econokit that works on the same principle reccomends that no more than 25% surface of the intake hose should be blocked - the fourth bell and the most important one !!!
- i have shortend the lenght of the hose between the tank and the reactor to about 70cm....that was the max i could get.
- i have adapted a windshiled washer to the tank wich took mixture out of the tank and poured back into the tank to make bubbles. At 2500 rpm, the car's engine felt rough, and that was the particular moment when i said - ENOUGH !

I put a lot of hope in this system, but for me, as it appears its nothing but a scam. And let me explain why:
a) since it was sold (according to the maker) to hundreds and tousands of clients, and nobody complained....how come i could not even make it work ? The seller (in this case is the maker of the system) told me in our conversations that the system is used even on a Porsche Cayenne, wich i find it more complicated than a Hyundai Santa Fe.
b) i wonder even if the bubbles showed under 2000rpm, the vaporisation rate would be enough to "feed" the engine to achieve at least 10% fuel economy ?
c) is the Hyundai Santa Fe the only car in the world with such a big in diameter intake hose (100mm) ? I guess a Ford or a Land Rover are the same....

You make the final judgement. I have tried anything possible, and did it in good faith. But so far, it looks like ... scam.

Is there any fuel-economy-System that ACTUALLY WORKS ? The last 2 weeks i read about h2, HHO, magnets and all that stuff. Seen some creepy pictures of the turbocharges of those who used HHO....or the real fuel economy is based on driving style and small engines ???
08-29-2012 07:29 AM
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hhofox Offline
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Post: #4
RE: New guy here, bare with me
Hi Daemonus. I am sorry to hear that you went through so much, but had the system fail in the end. I can tell you from personal experience that HHO does work, but it takes a lot of work to get it right and and can be expensive. HCS on the other hand, works as well, but places no stress on your engine, and it is cheap and easy to set up. Follow the link below, and see what it's all about. Read from about page 50 if you wan to skip to the good stuff. Don't forget to let us know how things worked for you.
My results: (Mostly city driving)
MPG before: 25.4MPG
MPG after: 33MPG
Real world math: My approx. 10 gallon tank now gives me about 330miles instead of 254!
This adds up to a lot of savings!
BTW... I plan to add my HHO back into the mix at the end of all this to get even better figures!
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2012 09:19 AM by hhofox.)
08-29-2012 09:17 AM
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daemonus Offline
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Post: #5
RE: New guy here, bare with me
I did read all the thread about HCS system, but only petrol engines are mentioned there. Totaly agree with you when you say that HCS is the less "invasive", cheap and easy on install, but i mentain my ideas:
a) the "reactor" (wich in fact is nothing but a pipe with small diameter, in order to facilitate heat travel and faster vaporisation) - should be calculated accordint to engine size
b) in direct relation cu a), there should me defined a maximum and a minimum amount of value for the vaccum that should be inside of a tank
c) in direct relation with b), the vaporisation speed should be taken under calculations when building a HCS system.

I cannot say i measured, but i guess my car does not produce EG (Exhaust Gas) at temps > 400. Than only when outside is vey hot. Yesterday i tried everything i could to make the system work, and even the water temp was 94oC after 5 hrs of starting, rev-ing and stopping the engine, when i went (read squeezed under the car), there was not unbearable heat (with a thin clotch i could keep my hand on the catalyst).

Further more, the water separates intro H2 and O2 at temps beyond 470oC, that means the vacuum formed would keep the water/mixture mooving, there for not having time to crack - so i guess it;s more like water/mixture injection rather than hidrocarb. cracking.

Maybe i'll give the so called "HCS" system a shot, when i find a pipe of copper thin enough so i can bend it aroudn exhaust and find a way to create vacuum to move the vapours from the tank to the intake.

I am open minded, what can i say.....and also like the ideea of fuel saving, but i hate scamming.
On my other car (Nissan Patrol Y61 3.0Di year 2000, Euro 2), i use water/meth injection wich indeed saves some fuel. But what i save in terms of diesel, i waste on meth, so there is little gain. At least, i get a internal clean engine, right ?

Cheers,
Chris.
08-29-2012 11:38 AM
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daemonus Offline
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Post: #6
RE: New guy here, bare with me
What happened to my post ?
08-30-2012 10:19 AM
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