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No Gain in mileage
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learntcm Offline
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Post: #1
No Gain in mileage
No mileage gains
Here are the full details. The vehicle is VW Santana 1996 1.8 carburetor engine. The cell is 11 plates -nnnn+nnnn- with bottle test it produces around 1 litre per minute at 15 amps. I did have a PWM with 53 frequency fitted but removed yesterday. There are no leaks as I use high quality hydraulic piping and fittings as you will see in photo. I use distilled water with KOH as electrolyte. I have a 4 litre reservoir and a bubbler. (I have also tried with 2nd bubbler with dry filter to make sure the HHO is dry before it gets to the engine. For testing purposes I have installed the cell, bubbler, reservoir etc in a small box which I put on the passenger seat, this way I can keep an eye on my AMPS, Bubbles and leak. Again no leaks, around 15 amps plenty of bubbles and they make a real load bang when I try to light them. In last 4 months I have tried the same system on Toyota High Ace Carburetor, VW Santana Carburetor, Buick Excel ECU, VW Jetta ECU with ECU I use a narrow band EFIE set at 200mv and Maf enhancer purchased from Mike. I have twice flushed my cell and each time the water came out clean as when I put it in.

Sorry to say but no mileage gain on any of the vehicles

When I had the PWM installed, no changes were noticed to the vehicle engine or exhaust. Since I removed the PWM now I see that the smoke from the exhaust smells much cleaner and water drops are coming out, when I saw this change I was over the moon and I was sure that I will see some mileage gain but after two 30Km rounds no change.

My test: I have disconnected the main petrol tank and fed two pipes from the pump into a 2 litre jar. I would fill this 2 litre jar and go on motor way with no traffic, same route each time. Tried about 20 times, every time I got 20km for 2 litre petrol with or with out HHO turned on.

Have to leave the city and home
I desperately need help. I have spent solid 3 months on this project and visited all my local garages for help and now every body is telling me this is a SCAM and I need to prove it to them including my family.

If some one can help me with phone support please send me phone number and best time to call and I will call you. Mt email is learntcm@gmail.com or if there are any training programs I am will to travel from UK to US for this.


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06-10-2010 06:54 AM
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spinlocker Offline
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Post: #2
RE: No Gain in mileage
Moderator, I posted to 'PWM question' and my reply shows up in 'no gain in mileage' and 'pwm question' as well. Am I holding my mouth wrong Smile or is that type of posting behavior normal?
06-10-2010 08:57 AM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #3
RE: No Gain in mileage
(06-10-2010 06:54 AM)learntcm Wrote:  No mileage gains
Here are the full details. The vehicle is VW Santana 1996 1.8 carburetor engine. The cell is 11 plates -nnnn+nnnn- with bottle test it produces around 1 litre per minute at 15 amps. I did have a PWM with 53 frequency fitted but removed yesterday. There are no leaks as I use high quality hydraulic piping and fittings as you will see in photo. I use distilled water with KOH as electrolyte. I have a 4 litre reservoir and a bubbler. (I have also tried with 2nd bubbler with dry filter to make sure the HHO is dry before it gets to the engine. For testing purposes I have installed the cell, bubbler, reservoir etc in a small box which I put on the passenger seat, this way I can keep an eye on my AMPS, Bubbles and leak. Again no leaks, around 15 amps plenty of bubbles and they make a real load bang when I try to light them. In last 4 months I have tried the same system on Toyota High Ace Carburetor, VW Santana Carburetor, Buick Excel ECU, VW Jetta ECU with ECU I use a narrow band EFIE set at 200mv and Maf enhancer purchased from Mike. I have twice flushed my cell and each time the water came out clean as when I put it in.

Sorry to say but no mileage gain on any of the vehicles

When I had the PWM installed, no changes were noticed to the vehicle engine or exhaust. Since I removed the PWM now I see that the smoke from the exhaust smells much cleaner and water drops are coming out, when I saw this change I was over the moon and I was sure that I will see some mileage gain but after two 30Km rounds no change.

My test: I have disconnected the main petrol tank and fed two pipes from the pump into a 2 litre jar. I would fill this 2 litre jar and go on motor way with no traffic, same route each time. Tried about 20 times, every time I got 20km for 2 litre petrol with or with out HHO turned on.

Have to leave the city and home
I desperately need help. I have spent solid 3 months on this project and visited all my local garages for help and now every body is telling me this is a SCAM and I need to prove it to them including my family.

If some one can help me with phone support please send me phone number and best time to call and I will call you. Mt email is learntcm@gmail.com or if there are any training programs I am will to travel from UK to US for this.

Looks like you're not getting any HHO to the engine. Looks like it goes into your bubbler (blue plastic bottle) and comes out the top and is dissipated into the atmosphere.
06-10-2010 01:05 PM
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learntcm Offline
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Post: #4
RE: No Gain in mileage
Thank you for your suggestion, if you look at the photo in this tread you will see that the pipe from my reservoir go to the bottom of my bubbler that’s the one with blue ends and from the top of the bubbler I got a pipe going to the engine and if you look at the 2nd photo I always check in the engine compartment to make sure same amount of bubbles are coming. Although you can not see the bubbles in small pop bottle but there are same amount of bubbles and also I tried the fire test and these bubbles light up and make a load bang. Another thing I notice is that my HHO outlet pipe from top of the bubbler to the air filter gets a little misty, its like when the HHO is going through the pipe it leaves a little mist ( Little Foggy)

As I said I been on this project for three months and spent hundreds of hours on PC reading about HHO and learning. I have done the following to see if any of these would cure the problem
1) Tried wet cell as well as dry cell producing from 1/2 LP to 1 LP per minute
2) On dry cell I changed my reservoir from 2 litre to 4 litre thinking that 2 litre might be getting hot
3) Removed PWM controller which was a 53 frequency. I read in one of the post that for HHO the best frequency is 101
4) Drained my dry cell twice and added new distilled water and KOH
5) Removed the bubbler and fed pipe direct into air filter, also tried with two bubblers one with water and other one with drying filter to make sure the HHO was dry before it got to engine
6) Changed all the pipes from original 8mm diameter to 10mm diameter


(06-10-2010 01:05 PM)thomasbala Wrote:  
(06-10-2010 06:54 AM)learntcm Wrote:  No mileage gains
Here are the full details. The vehicle is VW Santana 1996 1.8 carburetor engine. The cell is 11 plates -nnnn+nnnn- with bottle test it produces around 1 litre per minute at 15 amps. I did have a PWM with 53 frequency fitted but removed yesterday. There are no leaks as I use high quality hydraulic piping and fittings as you will see in photo. I use distilled water with KOH as electrolyte. I have a 4 litre reservoir and a bubbler. (I have also tried with 2nd bubbler with dry filter to make sure the HHO is dry before it gets to the engine. For testing purposes I have installed the cell, bubbler, reservoir etc in a small box which I put on the passenger seat, this way I can keep an eye on my AMPS, Bubbles and leak. Again no leaks, around 15 amps plenty of bubbles and they make a real load bang when I try to light them. In last 4 months I have tried the same system on Toyota High Ace Carburetor, VW Santana Carburetor, Buick Excel ECU, VW Jetta ECU with ECU I use a narrow band EFIE set at 200mv and Maf enhancer purchased from Mike. I have twice flushed my cell and each time the water came out clean as when I put it in.

Sorry to say but no mileage gain on any of the vehicles

When I had the PWM installed, no changes were noticed to the vehicle engine or exhaust. Since I removed the PWM now I see that the smoke from the exhaust smells much cleaner and water drops are coming out, when I saw this change I was over the moon and I was sure that I will see some mileage gain but after two 30Km rounds no change.

My test: I have disconnected the main petrol tank and fed two pipes from the pump into a 2 litre jar. I would fill this 2 litre jar and go on motor way with no traffic, same route each time. Tried about 20 times, every time I got 20km for 2 litre petrol with or with out HHO turned on.

Have to leave the city and home
I desperately need help. I have spent solid 3 months on this project and visited all my local garages for help and now every body is telling me this is a SCAM and I need to prove it to them including my family.

If some one can help me with phone support please send me phone number and best time to call and I will call you. Mt email is learntcm@gmail.com or if there are any training programs I am will to travel from UK to US for this.

Looks like you're not getting any HHO to the engine. Looks like it goes into your bubbler (blue plastic bottle) and comes out the top and is dissipated into the atmosphere.


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06-10-2010 03:20 PM
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jbalat Offline
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Post: #5
RE: No Gain in mileage
If you are driving with the bonnet open you may be getting too much wind drag ?

You may want to check out this thread for cars with ecu's if you are not seeing any gains. Its funny that some cars get immediate savings while others require lots of effort
http://www.fuel-saver.org/Thread-Tuning-for-Performance
06-10-2010 03:47 PM
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learntcm Offline
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Post: #6
RE: No Gain in mileage
What do you mean bonnet open? Any way the bonnet is close properly. My car has NO ECU, NO SENSORS. Its an old 1996 model. Just basic carburetor.

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06-10-2010 04:07 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #7
RE: No Gain in mileage
(06-10-2010 04:07 PM)learntcm Wrote:  What do you mean bonnet open? Any way the bonnet is close properly. My car has NO ECU, NO SENSORS. Its an old 1996 model. Just basic carburetor.
Try hooking up your HHO to a carburetor vacuum line.
06-10-2010 04:42 PM
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learntcm Offline
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Post: #8
RE: No Gain in mileage
There is a vacuum line in the carb and the pipe from there gos to the distributor. I have tried in there with a T piece still no gain.

(06-10-2010 04:42 PM)thomasbala Wrote:  
(06-10-2010 04:07 PM)learntcm Wrote:  What do you mean bonnet open? Any way the bonnet is close properly. My car has NO ECU, NO SENSORS. Its an old 1996 model. Just basic carburetor.
Try hooking up your HHO to a carburetor vacuum line.

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06-10-2010 04:50 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #9
RE: No Gain in mileage
(06-10-2010 04:50 PM)learntcm Wrote:  There is a vacuum line in the carb and the pipe from there gos to the distributor. I have tried in there with a T piece still no gain.

(06-10-2010 04:42 PM)thomasbala Wrote:  [quote='learntcm' pid='31879' dateline='1276214836']
What do you mean bonnet open? Any way the bonnet is close properly. My car has NO ECU, NO SENSORS. Its an old 1996 model. Just basic carburetor.
Try hooking up your HHO to a carburetor vacuum line.
The line that goes to the distributor runs the vacuum advance; that's not a good place for an HHO inlet. Try another vacuum line from the carb. If there isn't one then use a vacuum line off the intake manifold. If you're still not getting any gains you're not making enough HHO. Increase the strength of your electroylte (dissolve more NaOH). Usually carbed cars with no ECU take to HHO like ducks to water. I suspect you don't have enough HHO. You'll need about 1 lpm. Have you done a volume test to see how much HHO you're producing per minute?
06-10-2010 05:04 PM
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learntcm Offline
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Post: #10
RE: No Gain in mileage
you are right, Its so simple on a carburated cars. this is the expirience I had with a Suzuki 1000 cc about 6 months back. I made a water4gas electrolyer in a jar and it worked perfect.

Now I have gone advance made a dry cell and tested with a bottle test and its making 1 litre per min.

I have also already tried the vacuum line going direct in to manifold. There is a pipe coming from the manifold and going to the brake servo, its got a T and a spare outlet whicg was capped. I teed in there but no gain.

I was wondering could I be useing poor quality KOH?

Is ther any where I can up load a video. Youtube dont work where I live so any other site?



(06-10-2010 05:04 PM)thomasbala Wrote:  
(06-10-2010 04:50 PM)learntcm Wrote:  There is a vacuum line in the carb and the pipe from there gos to the distributor. I have tried in there with a T piece still no gain.

(06-10-2010 04:42 PM)thomasbala Wrote:  [quote='learntcm' pid='31879' dateline='1276214836']
What do you mean bonnet open? Any way the bonnet is close properly. My car has NO ECU, NO SENSORS. Its an old 1996 model. Just basic carburetor.
Try hooking up your HHO to a carburetor vacuum line.
The line that goes to the distributor runs the vacuum advance; that's not a good place for an HHO inlet. Try another vacuum line from the carb. If there isn't one then use a vacuum line off the intake manifold. If you're still not getting any gains you're not making enough HHO. Increase the strength of your electroylte (dissolve more NaOH). Usually carbed cars with no ECU take to HHO like ducks to water. I suspect you don't have enough HHO. You'll need about 1 lpm. Have you done a volume test to see how much HHO you're producing per minute?

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06-10-2010 06:38 PM
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