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Pedal Acceleration Sensor and fuel savings
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mike Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Pedal Acceleration Sensor and fuel savings
Nope. Everyone can have a theory. You can find mine in my articles. See the link to the documents page in my signature. I don't have a desire to argue them with anyone.

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05-28-2012 08:48 AM
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mariusmol Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Pedal Acceleration Sensor and fuel savings
@Mike
?? Not understand where that information may come and how this http://www.fuel-saver.org is organised ...that information come form same website ... link: "http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/oxygen-sensors" and is in contradiction to most observation's and information's I'm aware.
A certain HHO volume - "too much" - will lead the oxygen sensor readings to "lean" mixture and savings are lower than "proper" HHO volume is clear.
That "too much" is next to "too less" - the low value that not provide significant improvements.
I have that situation now and try to deal with.
Idle:
HHO improve combustion efficiency since higher temperature achieved from Carbon conversion to CO2 ( less CO and HC on exhaust ) and that will increase the water formed expansion as steam.
That mean higher pressure = torque and lower exhaust temperature.
This is valid for a certain HHO value ...
Same air, same RPM, same torque, less fuel, same temperature.
Sound good but that mean a precise HHO delivery ( not available for most HHO kit I know) otherwise will not get the improvements or will send more oxygen on exhaust and this will signal a lean mixture so more fuel will be injected according to ECU's algorithms.
"too less" will not offer any improvement.
"too much" will tend to increase the RPM way over the a range of values known by ECU for close loop algorithms ( idle, cruise) so less fuel will be injected to keep an established RPM value for a certain pedal acceleration sensor value.
Less fuel is lean again so stroke by stroke the total amount of fuel is higher than normal and no savings will be achieved since
Take a look to what Bosch say about a Zirconia oxygen sensor ( I guess you already know):

"Response time at "J"Gas = 220 °C and approx. 0.7 m · s–1 flow rate
As-new values for the 66% switching point; "lambda" jump = 1.10 - 1.30
for jump in the “lean” direction 2.0 s
for jump in the “rich” direction 1.5 s"

So, looks like extra air not come from increasing the air volume "from 2000 L to 2700 L" but from increasing the torque per each stroke and ECU's compensation's algorithms.
A Pedal Acceleration Signal emulator that will command the HHO volume make more sense to me but seems to need to work in conjunction with a EFIE to reduce the fuel at idle too ( considering idling on traffic is as much a fuel waste as open loop accelerations)
What do you think?
05-28-2012 07:45 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Pedal Acceleration Sensor and fuel savings
I don't have anything to add to what I already wrote in the articles on my site. If you don't agree with what I wrote, that's OK with me. Maybe you can do some tests to prove your hypotheses.

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05-29-2012 07:45 AM
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mariusmol Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Pedal Acceleration Sensor and fuel savings
(05-29-2012 07:45 AM)mike Wrote:  I don't have anything to add to what I already wrote in the articles on my site. If you don't agree with what I wrote, that's OK with me. Maybe you can do some tests to prove your hypotheses.
OK, so, is your article, your opinion.
Not need to argue!
I found that a measurement of voltage on exhaust pipe show different values with HHO and without HHO.
Also I found that a wire wrapped to Oxygen sensor body - already theoretically well grounded - connected to battery negative terminal change those values.
HHO is well known formed by electric charge on water.
Once ignited will reform the water and release the electro-negative charge.
The preliminary conclusion is that :
That charge - as the electro-negative Oxygen do - influence the galvanic cell called Oxygen sensor. In bad way for us!

A better ground will release that charge and the sensor will work as was designed in more closer to theoretically situation environment.
(stoichiometric mixture should burn with only de ionized water and CO2 as byproducts)

With a closer ground connection I suspect even a slight reverse offset - as most EFIE do ....
Looks like is - as HHO production - a matter of ionization! relative small electric potential may have big influence!
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2012 11:22 PM by mariusmol.)
05-30-2012 11:05 PM
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