Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Plates in series ... = HOT
Author Message
CitatioN10 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 131
Joined: Apr 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #1
Plates in series ... = HOT
I have been trying to run some plates in series and it has failed over and over . My plate size is 3 1/2 by 3 1/2 316 20 gauge ,

I have the PWM from PWMPOWER.com

I have made a 8 cell , 10 cell , 14 cell and 18 cell all of these in series get VERY VERY HOT , top connecting terminal of generator is getting about 140F " almost melting point "

Plates are spaced 1/16

Also getting about 1/2 liter per min in production.

My question is how do you run series without getting hot ?

The PWM does work good , I get hydrogen production without any electrolytes but yet I get a ton of browns gas , but think layers up top like foam .

Any idea's of how to run series without the heat ?
07-06-2008 11:18 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #2
RE: Plates in series ... = HOT
There's two threads with series cell in the title in the last week. Check them out.

If I had 6 separate containers with 2 plates in each and wired in series it might look like this:

+12v ---- (+ -) ---- (+ -) ---- (+ -) ---- (+ -) ---- (+ -) ---- (+ -) ----- gnd

That's a true series cell.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-06-2008 12:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cheapfuel Offline
Member
***

Posts: 174
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #3
RE: Plates in series ... = HOT
That is interesting; I have 3 generators in series, each with 4 stainless plates. The generator terminals show no shorts. I just added another teaspoon of NaOH to each generator. Right now I am getting 400 ml/min and drawing 10 amps. The generators are really cool. Not even warm to the touch. Will let it sit for a while and do a test again. Will add another teaspoon of NaOH if the draw is only 10 amps and the production is not more than 400 ml/min. I will keep adding NaOH till the amp draw gets to 15 amps or the production increases to 1000 ml/min. My guess is that at 15 amps the generators will be still be cool or only slightly warm.The voltage across the each generator is between 0.5 and 0.8 volts when the power is off. What is yours? What is the your ohm meter test across your generator terminals when the power is off?. Remember that your cells that you connect in series must be in their OWN electrolytes to bring your current (and hence heat) down. How much current is your system drawing. It must be a hell-of-lot if you are melting components....NOT GOOD TO RUN THAT HOT. Do you have a fuse in your testing system. I use a 40 amp fuse and number 12 wire. If your wire is smaller than #12 or #10 this could cause some heating.
07-06-2008 12:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CitatioN10 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 131
Joined: Apr 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #4
RE: Plates in series ... = HOT
Not sure if I understand what your saying but it seems as though your saying that I would run say 5 positives in one container and then run 5 negatives in another container .

Rick when you say
+12v ---- (+ -) ---- (+ -) ---- (+ -) ---- (+ -) ---- (+ -) ---- (+ -) ----- gnd

I'm running plates in series in 1 container , being 10 plates what may the combination be ?

+-+-+-+-+-

Thats how I ran them

OR do I need to do this in separate generators ?

OHM test accost terminals in 26.30

maybe +-+- in 1 generator , then +-+- in another one so on ?
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2008 12:49 PM by CitatioN10.)
07-06-2008 12:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #5
RE: Plates in series ... = HOT
CitatioN10, my example is 6 difference cells/generators/containers with electrolyte, whatever you choose to call them. I chose to show each container by wrapping them with parenthesis... ().

Each one in my example has one pos and one neg, but you could do (+ - +) in each cell (or more if you really needed the output).

One cell with (+-+-+-+-+-) sounds like an easy way to boil water, but not very efficient.Hmm

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-06-2008 01:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CitatioN10 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 131
Joined: Apr 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #6
RE: Plates in series ... = HOT
OK ,I will try a +-+ in 1 container and see how that works .

Does neutral plates help anything when your doing plates in series ?

The main reason I'm so confused with this is because the owner of pwmpower.com has told me I need to run all of my plates in series with PWM to see any gains , and hes currently running a 18 plate setup .
07-06-2008 02:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #7
RE: Plates in series ... = HOT
CitatioN10 Wrote:OK ,I will try a +-+ in 1 container and see how that works .

Does neutral plates help anything when your doing plates in series ?

The main reason I'm so confused with this is because the owner of pwmpower.com has told me I need to run all of my plates in series with PWM to see any gains , and hes currently running a 18 plate setup .

Neutrals can only be used if your cell has more than 4 volts on it... (12 volts/3 cells = 4 volts). So if you have 3 separate series cells, then you could go (+ N - N +) or (+ N -) for your cell.

With 2 cells you'd have 6 volts (12/2), so could use (+ N N - N N +) or (+ N N -) or you could go with (+ N - N +) or (+ N -) but the cell would run a bit warmer since you'd have 3 volts per set of plates.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-06-2008 03:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cheapfuel Offline
Member
***

Posts: 174
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #8
RE: Plates in series ... = HOT
(-+-+)----> amameter.......> switch........>........fuse.........> + terminal of battery
(-+-+)
(-+-+)-----------> - terminal of battery

each of the 3 cells is connect with each other in series. The 4 plates in each generator are in series as well. The anode and catode of each cell are actually interchangeable. At this moment I get 500 ml/min at 10 amps. The generators are barely warm. I will be adding more NaOH tomorrow after I give another test. I may not need to use a 4 th generator unless I want to draw less than 15 amps. Will see. I am using quite bit of NaOH. I have about 1 1/2 liters of solution in each generator. I think this helps to keep them cool. My plates are about 1/4 inches apart. This way I can be sure my plates don't short. I know some like to have there plates closer together. I am using a 1/2 nut. I find it difficult to get closer together and yet have a solid contact where I want it with very resistance where I do not want a contact.
07-06-2008 03:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
colchiro Offline
Moderator
*****

Posts: 3,265
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 11
Post: #9
RE: Plates in series ... = HOT
How are the plates connected to the terminals in each cell?

Are the two pos plates connected to one terminal and the two neg plates connected to the other terminal? Then your diagram (-+-+) would be accurate.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-06-2008 03:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CitatioN10 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 131
Joined: Apr 2008
Reputation: 0
Post: #10
RE: Plates in series ... = HOT
Rick I have stainless steel strips coming from each cell going to the top , then I took a 1/4 inch threaded SS rod and welded them to the strips , those are going though the lid .
07-06-2008 03:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)