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Poor Results
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sabre1pc Offline
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Post: #1
Poor Results
I'm hoping someone can make suggestions to help increase my MPG.
I installed the following in a Hummer H3 with a 3.7 liter inline 5 cylinder. The generator amps are about 20-25 & the EFIE is set at 350mv for 2 analog O2 sensors. I've seen no increase in MPG after 500 miles of driving. Sodium Hydroxide as electrolyte, 1-2 tblsp per gal of distilled water

DIGITAL QUAD EFIE http://www.hhokitsdirect.com/efie.php

The 772 HHO models http://www.hhokitsdirect.com/midsize_hyd...erator.php

Size: 7" X 7" X 3.5" thick
Two Cell
3 Electrodes
Production: 3.0 - 4.5 LPM
I/O- 2 inlet fittings / 2 outlet fittings
316L Stainless Steel
Reservoir
Secondary Bubbler
10' of Reinforced Tubing
10 SS Hose Clamps
One ON/OFF Switch60 Amp Current Meter
2 Y- Connector Fittings
Crimp On Wire Connectors
Electric Solenoid Vacuum Valve/hose
20' of 10 Gauge Stranded Wire (POWER)
10' of 16 gauge Stranded Wire (Relay/Switch)
70 AMP Relay, Plug in Base, and Connectors
60 AMP Water tight Fuse Holder
2- 40 AMP Heavy Duty Fuses
2- 3/4" X 12" Long Galvanized Steel Mounting Straps
02-15-2012 10:56 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Poor Results
Try cutting your amps in 1/2. Run it at 10-12 amps. If you don't have a PWM, then just add more distilled water. That will probably solve the situation.

I suspect you'll need to increase the EFIE setting on the front sensors. Remember, for digital EFIEs, lower means more lean. So try running it down a little further, like 250 or even 200 mv.

But first, cut down those amps. We run semis on 25 amps. Cars need way less, and more is definitely not better.

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02-15-2012 11:19 PM
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sabre1pc Offline
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RE: Poor Results
(02-15-2012 11:19 PM)mike Wrote:  Try cutting your amps in 1/2. Run it at 10-12 amps. If you don't have a PWM, then just add more distilled water. That will probably solve the situation.

I suspect you'll need to increase the EFIE setting on the front sensors. Remember, for digital EFIEs, lower means more lean. So try running it down a little further, like 250 or even 200 mv.

But first, cut down those amps. We run semis on 25 amps. Cars need way less, and more is definitely not better.

I reduced the amps to 10-11 for the generator. Both sensors are analog so I reset those to 250mv from 350mv because I was getting some sputtering when accelerating. I drove 290 miles, still no increase. Have I missed anything? The generator is making HHO. I can see the bubbler working.
02-20-2012 06:51 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: Poor Results
Sorry, thought you had a digital EFIE. 350 mv is plenty high, and may be too high. Do you have a check engine light?

Try setting both EFIEs at 200 mv and see if things improve. Then tweak from there.

I wouldn't raise the amperage yet. Just adjust the EFIEs.

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02-21-2012 12:08 PM
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sabre1pc Offline
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RE: Poor Results
(02-21-2012 12:08 PM)mike Wrote:  Sorry, thought you had a digital EFIE. 350 mv is plenty high, and may be too high. Do you have a check engine light?

Try setting both EFIEs at 200 mv and see if things improve. Then tweak from there.

I wouldn't raise the amperage yet. Just adjust the EFIEs.

I now lowered the EFIE's to 200mv. I intermittently have gotten check engine lights with the following codes.

P2a01 is a dtc code.
P2a01- A circuit/performance range problem with an oxygen sensor, bank 2 sensor one

P0137 OBD-II Trouble Code
Technical Description

Oxygen O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 1, Sensor 2)
What does that mean?

Essentially the same as P0136, P0137 refers to the second oxygen sensor on Bank 1. P0137 means the O2 oxygen sensor's voltage remained low for longer than 2 minutes. This, is interpreted by the ECM as a low voltage condition and sets the MIL. Bank 1 Sensor 2 is located to the rear of the catalytic converter and should produce an output signal relative to oxygen storage capacity of the catalytic converter. This rear (sensor 2) sensor is less active than the signal produced by the front sensor. However, if the ECM senses the sensor is inactive, this code will set.

I'm able to clear the codes when they do come up, but I'm not sure if this is a bad thing or not. Please advise.
02-22-2012 05:50 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: Poor Results
Ok. These help alot.

If you're getting an out of range code with the EFIE at 350 mv, that's just telling you that it's too high. Particularly if you have old sensors, you'll nee to be much lower than that.

On the downstream sensors, you'll need to raise the voltage. If you don't have EFIEs on the downstream sensors, you'll need them. Low voltage means it needs an EFIE, or the EFIE voltage needs to be raised. This often happens when an HHO system is running. The computer doesn't see enough emissions in the exhaust and thinks something is wrong. Actually the reverse is true. But the EFIE will make it happy again.

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02-22-2012 09:22 AM
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sabre1pc Offline
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RE: Poor Results
(02-22-2012 09:22 AM)mike Wrote:  Ok. These help alot.

If you're getting an out of range code with the EFIE at 350 mv, that's just telling you that it's too high. Particularly if you have old sensors, you'll nee to be much lower than that.

On the downstream sensors, you'll need to raise the voltage. If you don't have EFIEs on the downstream sensors, you'll need them. Low voltage means it needs an EFIE, or the EFIE voltage needs to be raised. This often happens when an HHO system is running. The computer doesn't see enough emissions in the exhaust and thinks something is wrong. Actually the reverse is true. But the EFIE will make it happy again.

I stalled new sensors 2 weeks ago. I have a quad digital EFIE. You told me on a previous thread my sensors are analog, so I connected both sensors(upstream & downstream) to the lower EFIE connections. Turning the lower pot clockwise increases the mv's. I have the sensors set at 200mv right now and running the generator voltage at 10-11 amps.
If I have leaned the fuel back where it makes the engine sputter and am running 10-11 amps on the generator while it makes HHO, should this not result in higher MPG? Could a mileage chip work better than an EFIE?
02-22-2012 12:39 PM
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sabre1pc Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Poor Results
(02-22-2012 09:22 AM)mike Wrote:  Ok. These help alot.

If you're getting an out of range code with the EFIE at 350 mv, that's just telling you that it's too high. Particularly if you have old sensors, you'll nee to be much lower than that.

On the downstream sensors, you'll need to raise the voltage. If you don't have EFIEs on the downstream sensors, you'll need them. Low voltage means it needs an EFIE, or the EFIE voltage needs to be raised. This often happens when an HHO system is running. The computer doesn't see enough emissions in the exhaust and thinks something is wrong. Actually the reverse is true. But the EFIE will make it happy again.

My latest results are I'm running the generator at 8-10 amps. the 3 week old Analog sensors (upstream/downstream) are set at 250 mv on the lower connections of my Quad Digital Efie. I still occasionally get the P0137 and P2A01 OBD codes which I clear when I see them. I've driven over 400 miles (city/highway) averaging 15.5 mpg. any ideas on my bad results? Is this typical of a 3.7 litre inline 5 cylinder?
03-01-2012 06:56 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: Poor Results
No, not typical at all. But if you're still getting codes then there is still something wrong with your settings. Again, be very sure you have the correct signal wire, and that your installation is correct. But if so, then you need to make adjustments so that you're not throwing codes. Those codes should not be happening if your settings are good.

Once you have the settings such that it doesn't throw more codes, then your mileage should improve quite a bit. When the ECU sees error conditions it will overcompensate to correct for what it perceives as being wrong. This almost always results in worse fuel mileage.

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03-01-2012 04:27 PM
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sabre1pc Offline
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RE: Poor Results
(03-01-2012 04:27 PM)mike Wrote:  No, not typical at all. But if you're still getting codes then there is still something wrong with your settings. Again, be very sure you have the correct signal wire, and that your installation is correct. But if so, then you need to make adjustments so that you're not throwing codes. Those codes should not be happening if your settings are good.

Once you have the settings such that it doesn't throw more codes, then your mileage should improve quite a bit. When the ECU sees error conditions it will overcompensate to correct for what it perceives as being wrong. This almost always results in worse fuel mileage.

is it possible the generator is not producing enough hho? Maybe disconnect the downstream sensor? possibly a map or maf enhancer? i've come this far. I'm not giving up now.
03-01-2012 05:59 PM
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