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Problems with a wide efie
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tohmahak Offline
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Post: #1
Problems with a wide efie
Hello fuel saver forum,
I've bought a wideband o2 efie from the fuelsaver-mpg.com site last january and I've triied to install it today. To make sure I was on the right wire and that I was doing things right I've monitored the o2 sensor signal
with auterra scan tool on my laptop. Included is the picture of what happenned when I tuned the efie to lower the air fuel ratio.

What happens is that when I turn the pot on the efie, the AFR or the mA pumping current starts to fluctuate as the computer tries to reajust the AFR back to 14,7, the higher I trim and the higher the value around which the AFR fluctuate. But at a certain point the car move back to open loop and the afr drops back to 12 or 13 and the check engine lamp goes on...

What's going on? Can you help me?


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(This post was last modified: 03-27-2009 06:01 AM by tohmahak.)
03-26-2009 05:53 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Problems with a wide efie
Maybe you need to ignore your scan tool and read the Wide Band EFIE Installation Instructions.
"So take it easy in setting this device on your car. I think you'll find that the correct setting will be between 1/4 and 1/2 power. But the thing to do is to start low, and test your mileage. Then raise it a bit and see if you've mileage improves. Continue to test in this way until you get no increase of mileage, or a decrease. Then go back to the last point that increased mileage. That's where you want to be."

What kind of vehicle is this installed on? Is it the 2008 grand cherokee diesel 3.0 crd v6?

Did you confirm with Bruce that you needed a WB efie?

Did you check the voltages on your o2 sensor wires per the above documentation? You'd want the pump wire with the higher voltage:
"You are looking for the current pump wires, which should be around 2.7 and 3.0 volts, or 3.0 and 3.3 volts for 4-wire sensors."

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
03-26-2009 06:11 PM
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tohmahak Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Problems with a wide efie
No it's not instaled on the cherokee, its on a volkswagen golf 2003 2.0l and it runs on gas.
The o2 sensor that fits on this vehicule is a bosch wideband o2 sensor with 5 wire
I had the wiring diagram and I've double checked with the multimeter to find the wire with the highest potential which was indeed the pump current on the diagram.
I did not confirm with Bruce, but I know what a wideband or a narrow band o2 sensor is and how the signal behave differently from one to another. Just from the graphic I've posted it is obvious that the signal from the o2 does not fluctuate as it would be the case with a narrow band.
Moreover I went to the volks garage to confirm the part number to check out if it really was a wideband and it was.

And I am not saying that the things does not work, I just saying that it modifies how the signal behave in a way that it is not supose to as it is not stable anymore.
So if your telling me that it is normal and that it is the way its suppose to be then, fine. But if its so I can tell that the wideband efie is not yet the perfect solution has the computer sees that there is something wrong and always tries to correct to get back to the fixed value of 14,7 but instead fluctuate a little bit over this mix because it cant stabilise...
BTW if you want to double check:
the car is a VW golf 2003 2.0 GL gas engine.
The cell which is installed on the car produces around 1,5liter/min at 20 amp. If it can be of any importance to you.
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2009 06:00 AM by tohmahak.)
03-27-2009 05:53 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Problems with a wide efie
Why don't you email Bruce at the link above and find out for sure what wire you should be on. I'm familiar with the 4 wire Toyotas, but not the 5 wire wb's. Chrysler products have a 5 wire wideband, but I'm sure that's different.

I've asked Mike to drop in.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2009 12:33 PM by colchiro.)
03-27-2009 12:31 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Problems with a wide efie
Hi Guys,

I'm sorry to be late to the party. Its been a hectic day!

I looked up your sensor's wiring diagram, and it shows me you have a 6-wire sensor. The chances of getting the wrong wire are pretty high. I suspect that's what's going on.

When you have the correct wire, you will find that when you dial up the pot, that you can lug down the engine, and even kill it. If you can do that you have the right wire. If not, you haven't.

The 5 and 6 wire wide bands are tricky to find the correct wire by testing. The problem is that there is another wire that usually has about the same voltage as the one you are looking for. So if you can't lug down the engine then you have the wrong wire. Switch to the other one. If I recall correctly, the VW current pump pair runs at about 2.8 volts or so on the higher wire, and 2.5 on the reference wire. You would want the 2.8 wire.

Just a reality check: Make sure the LED is lit on the EFIE.

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03-27-2009 03:16 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Problems with a wide efie
Thanks Mike.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
03-27-2009 07:56 PM
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tohmahak Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Problems with a wide efie
thanks for your precise answer Mike.
Your right about the 6 wire wideband, but I'd like to point out that the sensor itself has 5 wires but the plug in which it connect has 6 wires.
The wire I'm connected on as a constant voltage of about 2,95V. there is one other that has a constant 2,5V and two other that were oscillating between 2,3V and 3V

Another thing is that I could effectively kill the motor by setting the pot too high too fast, but if I would turn the pot slowly then letting it idle like this for a while it would fluctuate as in the picture.

so I think I had the right wire but I think I could give it another try and let it run with the oscilliating signal to see if it stabilise.

I'll get back to you after further testing then, but until then if you would have any experience or documentation related to the volksvagen to share with me that could help me set up this wideband effie, it would be appreciated!

by the way, the led is lit

Good day
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2009 05:09 PM by tohmahak.)
03-29-2009 05:07 PM
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tohmahak Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Problems with a wide efie
So, still trying and I get nothing, here's the diagram of the o2 sensor
http://www.airfuelmeter.com/french/lsu4_fr_sensor.htm
I should connect the efie to the red wire on this diagram right?
I'm connected to this red wire(which turns green after the connector harness) and I cannot not lug down the engine until it turn rapidly the pot to the max value whici will hardly make a little puff then everything goes back to normal..

Could this efie be not suitable with this type of wideband sensor?
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2009 09:24 AM by tohmahak.)
03-31-2009 09:14 AM
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royco Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Problems with a wide efie
tohmahak,

I have a 2001 passat 1.8T AWM, probably have the same AFR sensor and I used the red wire also. When I was testing a week ago, the engine would go into open loop with even the slightest nudge of the pot. Engine shaking. Im still trying to figure it out. But that would have to wait as my unit had the power supply problem I think.

Anyway, try looking at the Short Term Fuel Trim(STFT), it reacts to your adjustments almost instantly. once it starts going -20 and above it will go into open loop. I think you should gun for an STFT of -10.
04-29-2009 04:03 PM
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