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Problems with my EFIE
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machouse Offline
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Post: #1
Problems with my EFIE
Hello. I'm a new HHO french user. I recently bought a complete DC450 dry cell system on http://www.advancedhho.com.

My car is a Renault Safrane with a volvo engine (5 cylinders, 2.5 liters, 20 valves). It's a fully LPG converted car with a Landirezo system :
http://www.landi.it/layout.jsp?idz=70067...prodotto=6

My car has around 150 000 miles.

I mounted the kit on my car as you can see on these pictures :
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I have changed my O2 sensor for one brand new two weeks ago. I have only one O2 sensor on my car.
My HHO settings are up to 15A.

I tried to configure my EFIE but I failed. Here is my problem :
_ When my EFIE is on (with any offset : 0mV up to 450mV), my “check engine” lights on my dashboard. When I put it off, the “check engine” goes away. The green light on the EFIE is blinking great ;
_ So I tried to drive my car before the “check engine” lights on with a 200mV offset on the EFIE but I lose power and my car ran on 15.7 miles/gallon (instead of 23.5 miles/gallon before turning on the system).

Anybody knows where the problem is ?Crazy
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2009 04:01 AM by machouse.)
11-02-2009 03:56 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Problems with my EFIE
It would be very helpful if you can tell us what the code was.

Also, 200 mv may be too low. With a digital EFIE, 450 mv is "no change". Try setting it at 450 mv and see if you still get the CEL. If you do, then we have to suspect the installation. Maybe on the wrong wire? I think it must be right since you have a blinking LED. That's very hard to get unless you are on the correct wire.

I'd really like to know what that code is. If you don't have a way to get it scanned, many cars have a blink code. You turn the key on and off several times in a short period of time and the CEL will blink in patterns that will tell you the code. See if your car has that capability.

Its really hard to debug CELs without a code.

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11-02-2009 01:35 PM
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hhoelectronics Offline
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RE: Problems with my EFIE
(11-02-2009 03:56 AM)machouse Wrote:  It's a fully LPG converted car with a Landirezo system :
http://www.landi.it/layout.jsp?idz=70067...prodotto=6

I also own a Renault LPG/gasoline car in Europe and the combustion is changed to 18:1 by the manufacture.
These kits come with EFIE, so, did you remove (switch off) the old EFIE (for LPG)?
It is called "lambda controller" in Europe.
11-02-2009 04:24 PM
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machouse Offline
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RE: Problems with my EFIE
(11-02-2009 01:35 PM)mike Wrote:  It would be very helpful if you can tell us what the code was.

Also, 200 mv may be too low. With a digital EFIE, 450 mv is "no change". Try setting it at 450 mv and see if you still get the CEL. If you do, then we have to suspect the installation. Maybe on the wrong wire? I think it must be right since you have a blinking LED. That's very hard to get unless you are on the correct wire.

I'd really like to know what that code is. If you don't have a way to get it scanned, many cars have a blink code. You turn the key on and off several times in a short period of time and the CEL will blink in patterns that will tell you the code. See if your car has that capability.

Its really hard to debug CELs without a code.

Hello mike,
my car are unable to do that but I bought an interface to read codes (OBD2 compliant) last week from Germany.
I expect to receive it this week to read where the problem is Wink .
I think I'm on the correct wire because when I switch off the EFIE, the "check engine" lights off.

(11-02-2009 04:24 PM)hhoelectronics Wrote:  I also own a Renault LPG/gasoline car in Europe and the combustion is changed to 18:1 by the manufacture.
These kits come with EFIE, so, did you remove (switch off) the old EFIE (for LPG)?
It is called "lambda controller" in Europe.

Hello hhoelectronics,
most of the LPG converted car that I've seen, have a O2 controller. But my car have a LPG sequential injection and have his own LPG ECU.
I don't see every O2 controller under the hood Wink . Maybe LPG ECU integrate a O2 controller ?
11-03-2009 12:12 AM
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mike Offline
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RE: Problems with my EFIE
(11-03-2009 12:12 AM)machouse Wrote:  Hello mike,
my car are unable to do that but I bought an interface to read codes (OBD2 compliant) last week from Germany.
I expect to receive it this week to read where the problem is Wink .
I think I'm on the correct wire because when I switch off the EFIE, the "check engine" lights off.

The fact that the check engine light goes out when you turn the EFIE off, doesn't mean you're on the correct wire. If you were on a wrong wire, when you turned the EFIE off, the relay inside the EFIE would reconnect the wrong wire, making the code go away. I'm not saying you're on the wrong wire. I'm just saying that the above is not evidence that you are on the correct wire. So this still has to be verified.

I don't know the electronics for your LPG system. But I would think that it will also be fooled by the HHO and will still need o2 sensor compensation. hhoelectronics should be able to help you better with that.

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11-03-2009 12:28 AM
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machouse Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Problems with my EFIE
(11-03-2009 12:28 AM)mike Wrote:  The fact that the check engine light goes out when you turn the EFIE off, doesn't mean you're on the correct wire. If you were on a wrong wire, when you turned the EFIE off, the relay inside the EFIE would reconnect the wrong wire, making the code go away. I'm not saying you're on the wrong wire. I'm just saying that the above is not evidence that you are on the correct wire. So this still has to be verified.

I don't understand. If I turned off the EFIE, the wire from O2 sensor and the wire from the ECU will be reconnected each other and the light goes out.
It's not supposed to be true with the wire from ECU and another wire than O2 sensor. That's suppose I connected two wrong wires ? I don't think so because :
1- The green light is blinking when I play with the throttle.
2- I follow the instruction and I find the signal wire with the electrical schematic of my car.
3- This signal wire is also used by the LPG ECU.

I've checked a couple of time my installation with the instructions :
1- Green wire on the O2 sensor.
2- White wire on the ECU.

This morning I've tried to switch on and to put 450mV on my EFIE. I drove 1 mile before the check engine default comes on my dashboard.
So I switch off the EFIE, drive without it : no default on my dashboard and my fuel consumption with HHO is now like before (without HHO).
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2009 06:52 AM by machouse.)
11-03-2009 02:48 AM
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hhoelectronics Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Problems with my EFIE
(11-03-2009 12:12 AM)machouse Wrote:  Hello hhoelectronics,
most of the LPG converted car that I've seen, have a O2 controller. But my car have a LPG sequential injection and have his own LPG ECU.
I don't see every O2 controller under the hood Wink . Maybe LPG ECU integrate a O2 controller ?

When you run on LPG, the mixture is changed to 18:1 by the controller or independent ECU.

On gasoline, the mixture is changed back to approximately 14:1. You should try to use your EFIE on gasoline mode and see if you can solve the CEL problem. I guess your car is with dual tank, like mine, you start on gasoline and switch to LPG later.

In my opinion, using 2EFIEs (one from Mike and one from the LPG system) is redundant and you can get unexpected results.
11-03-2009 01:32 PM
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machouse Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Problems with my EFIE
(11-03-2009 01:32 PM)hhoelectronics Wrote:  When you run on LPG, the mixture is changed to 18:1 by the controller or independent ECU.

On gasoline, the mixture is changed back to approximately 14:1. You should try to use your EFIE on gasoline mode and see if you can solve the CEL problem. I guess your car is with dual tank, like mine, you start on gasoline and switch to LPG later.

In my opinion, using 2EFIEs (one from Mike and one from the LPG system) is redundant and you can get unexpected results.

I already try to use the EFIE from Mike only running on gasoline but the result is the same.

I try to use this EFIE in different mode :
1- running on LPG
2- running on gasoline
3- with a 0mV offset to 450mV
4- EFIE without HHO
5- EFIE with HHO

The result is always the same : the "check engine" on my dashboard.

I plug the green wire on the O2 sensor wire and I plug the white wire on the car ECU and the LPG ECU. So the Mike EFIE can work with the tow ECUs.

My car is like yours, we bought it to run on LPG and not only gasoline. Is there a chance to increase mileage on LPG without Mike EFIE ?
11-03-2009 02:49 PM
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hhoelectronics Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Problems with my EFIE
(11-03-2009 02:49 PM)machouse Wrote:  My car is like yours, we bought it to run on LPG and not only gasoline. Is there a chance to increase mileage on LPG without Mike EFIE ?

I don't know. My car from Europe gets 40mpg on gasoline and the cost for LPG is like 70mpg. I am happy enough with these results, and I am not interested to mix hydrogen with LPG.

(11-03-2009 02:49 PM)machouse Wrote:  I already try to use the EFIE from Mike only running on gasoline but the result is the same.

You have a hardware issue.
11-03-2009 10:04 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Problems with my EFIE
Machouse,

hhoelectronics is right. There is a hardware issue.

When the digital EFIE is on the correct wire, and set at .45 volts, it will not set a code if on the right wire. The computer will not be able to tell the difference. But if, for instance, you connected to a heater wire, or to a signal ground wire, instead of the signal high wire, then it would cause codes. I'm not saying that's what happened. I don't have enough information to be able to tell you what happened. But the fact that the code goes away when the EFIE is off could be expected happen if the EFIE were on the wrong wire. When the EFIE is off, the green wire is connected to the white wire inside the EFIE.

There just isn't enough information to diagnose it further.

Here's a reality check: Turn the EFIE off. Measure the signal wire while the engine is running. Does it fluctuate between 0 and 1 volt? Is it constantly changing? You can look at the video linked in the installation instructions. Does your signal wire look like the one in the video? If not, we have to debug that.

Finally, if all else fails, lets get the code read. Otherwise we're just guessing.

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11-03-2009 11:33 PM
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