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Pulse width modulators??
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Sparky3 Offline
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Post: #1
Pulse width modulators??
I have a working cell ( too cold right now) so i'm thinking of using a stonger electolye mix that will not freeze as easily. (Thats a whole different dillema.)
The problem then will be higher operating temps. Several sites i've visited suggest that I should be using a Pulse Width Modulator to control the booster voltage/amperage, & thus lowering the operating temp.
Would the Scan Guage that many seem to using, be able to do the same thing?? Some guages are pricey. Modulators can be had for about $40.00 (Ebay)
Why not use a small rehostat like the ancient car heater speed control ?? Please help me out here if you can. Thanks. A.F.
01-24-2009 01:38 PM
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benny Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Pulse width modulators??
(01-24-2009 01:38 PM)Sparky3 Wrote:  I have a working cell ( too cold right now) so i'm thinking of using a stonger electolye mix that will not freeze as easily. (Thats a whole different dillema.)
The problem then will be higher operating temps. Several sites i've visited suggest that I should be using a Pulse Width Modulator to control the booster voltage/amperage, & thus lowering the operating temp.
Would the Scan Guage that many seem to using, be able to do the same thing?? Some gauges are pricey. Modulators can be had for about $40.00 (Ebay)
Why not use a small rehostat like the ancient car heater speed control ?? Please help me out here if you can. Thanks. A.F.

Rheostat is inefficient. It will drop the voltage to the generator, thereby controlling current draw, but at the cost of dumping energy as heat in the rheostat.
Simplest explanation of PWM operation. A PWM/HHO generator combination is similar in operation to a switch mode power supply, in that the PWM switches power on/off repeatedly to your generator, which is in reality a capacitor of sorts, and maintains an average voltage at the generator according to the mark:space ratio set at the PWM.
By controlling the voltage across the HHO generator, you control the current flow through the generator. Very little power is lost in a well constructed/designed PWM.
Much more efficient than a rheostat.

Scan gauge is a different beastie altogether. It isn't used for direct control of an HHO or H2 generator, but allows monitoring of fuel:air mix amongst a lot of other functions. Makes it easier to see in real time how adjustments to HHO production rate, sensor adjustments, using PWM, EFIE, etc. are affecting engine performance, MPG, etc.
are having.

Unless of course Scan gauge has had a PWM added since last time I checked.

Control of max current through any sort of HHO/H2 generator, using varying electrolyte strength alone, is a bit hit-and-miss, or, to put it another way, a bit iffy to say the least.

Have a look through the various sections of the forum., There is a lot of good solid information available there.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2009 02:51 PM by benny.)
01-24-2009 02:40 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Pulse width modulators??
(01-24-2009 02:40 PM)benny Wrote:  
(01-24-2009 01:38 PM)Sparky3 Wrote:  I have a working cell ( too cold right now) so i'm thinking of using a stonger electolye mix that will not freeze as easily. (Thats a whole different dillema.)
The problem then will be higher operating temps. Several sites i've visited suggest that I should be using a Pulse Width Modulator to control the booster voltage/amperage, & thus lowering the operating temp.
Would the Scan Guage that many seem to using, be able to do the same thing?? Some gauges are pricey. Modulators can be had for about $40.00 (Ebay)
Why not use a small rehostat like the ancient car heater speed control ?? Please help me out here if you can. Thanks. A.F.

Rheostat is inefficient. It will drop the voltage to the generator, thereby controlling current draw, but at the cost of dumping energy as heat in the rheostat.
Simplest explanation of PWM operation. A PWM/HHO generator combination is similar in operation to a switch mode power supply, in that the PWM switches power on/off repeatedly to your generator, which is in reality a capacitor of sorts, and maintains an average voltage at the generator according to the mark:space ratio set at the PWM.
By controlling the voltage across the HHO generator, you control the current flow through the generator. Very little power is lost in a well constructed/designed PWM.
Much more efficient than a rheostat.

Scan gauge is a different beastie altogether. It isn't used for direct control of an HHO or H2 generator, but allows monitoring of fuel:air mix amongst a lot of other functions. Makes it easier to see in real time how adjustments to HHO production rate, sensor adjustments, using PWM, EFIE, etc. are affecting engine performance, MPG, etc.
are having.

Unless of course Scan gauge has had a PWM added since last time I checked.

Control of max current through any sort of HHO/H2 generator, using varying electrolyte strength alone, is a bit hit-and-miss, or, to put it another way, a bit iffy to say the least.

Have a look through the various sections of the forum., There is a lot of good solid information available there.

If you're going to get a PWM the old saying of "you get what you pay for" applies. The 30 amp $40.00 ebay models will get so hot the solder will drip off them at 30 amps. You might as well get a 60 amp PWM with a removable potentiometer. Then you can mount the pot on your dash, glove box, etc. along with an ammeter so you can adjust on the fly. Of course you'll probably never crank it up to 60 amps but it'll run a lot cooler at 30amps.
01-24-2009 05:45 PM
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tonyc860 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Pulse width modulators??
so is there a reputable pwm out there that is not on ebay? i am not to fond of ebay, bought many things that are at the dump now.

Tony
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01-24-2009 06:20 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Pulse width modulators??
I know what you mean about ebay. I bought a 60 amp PWM that comes with the potentiometer unattached to the PWM so you can mount it in the cab. I've had it for about 6 months with no problems. I've never ran it over 30 amps either. The outfit I bought it from is http://www.hhoglobalsupply.com; ran into them on ebay but I don't endorse them or their products. For all I know I could be the only one with no problems. I noticed they also sell MAF/MAP enhansors which I think are BS, probably because I've never had any luck with them. I bought it over the 4th of July holiday by being the highest and only bid, $48.00 if Memory serves me correctly. I noticed the best time to bid on anything on ebay is during a holiday when there's little competition because everyone is picnicing, boating, camping, enjoying the holiday. I would suggest you research the PWMs out there and satisfy yourself about their quality before you plunk down your hard earned cash.
01-24-2009 06:57 PM
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Sparky3 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Pulse width modulators??
(01-24-2009 06:20 PM)tonyc860 Wrote:  so is there a reputable pwm out there that is not on ebay? i am not to fond of ebay, bought many things that are at the dump now.

Thank you Benny, Thomasbala, & TonyC860 for your quick replys. I can understand that the rehostat is not the answer, so I'll shop around for a PWM to install when I restart my booster. Right now I'm experimenting with the addition of a heat tape around my booster to keep it from freezing overnight in our cold climate in Manitoba, Canada. Then I have to deal with daytime cold when the truck is parked somewhere for the day. I could bypass the ignition switch & keep the booster running & warm, but then I have to be able to vent the hydroxy gas to the outside till I restart the truck. Practical ????
I'm hoping the some smart engineer is going to come up with some practical solutions to the problems that this technology is still fighting with. Were just scratching the surface of the possibilities ahead.
Fight On! Fight On! Never say die!! LOL
01-24-2009 07:16 PM
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tonyc860 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Pulse width modulators??
(01-24-2009 07:16 PM)Sparky3 Wrote:  
(01-24-2009 06:20 PM)tonyc860 Wrote:  so is there a reputable pwm out there that is not on ebay? i am not to fond of ebay, bought many things that are at the dump now.

Thank you Benny, Thomasbala, & TonyC860 for your quick replys. I can understand that the rehostat is not the answer, so I'll shop around for a PWM to install when I restart my booster. Right now I'm experimenting with the addition of a heat tape around my booster to keep it from freezing overnight in our cold climate in Manitoba, Canada. Then I have to deal with daytime cold when the truck is parked somewhere for the day. I could bypass the ignition switch & keep the booster running & warm, but then I have to be able to vent the hydroxy gas to the outside till I restart the truck. Practical ????
I'm hoping the some smart engineer is going to come up with some practical solutions to the problems that this technology is still fighting with. Were just scratching the surface of the possibilities ahead.
Fight On! Fight On! Never say die!! LOL

what i did is take an aquarium pump and put it inline between the gen and res. the res has a heat coil (i used an old crock pot element but heat tape would look better). at night i plug both in, the pump circulate warm water through the gen, res and bubbler. 6 degrees here in CT, not like canada but still cold enough to freeze.

Tony
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2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L v6
2005 F150 4.6 ltr-No longer Thank God!Smile
01-26-2009 10:26 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Pulse width modulators??
Yep here it is... Made by Rick Lawrence - Email: godsfuel@live.com
[/quote]
What does it cost? What frequencies [not pulse modulations] does it operate at? Don't see any adjustment screws, etc. Does the maker have a web page with more info? Looks a lot like ZFF's PWM, well built, made to dissipate heat, compact, waterproof,...
01-28-2009 09:02 PM
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freddyhho Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Pulse width modulators??
You can build one if you like,you can find the schematics and pictures from
http://www3.telus.net/chemelec/Projects/...it-PWM.htm is an easy way to build a ZFF like PWM.

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01-28-2009 10:13 PM
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alpha-dog Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Pulse width modulators??
(01-28-2009 10:13 PM)freddyhho Wrote:  You can build one if you like,you can find the schematics and pictures from
http://www3.telus.net/chemelec/Projects/...it-PWM.htm is an easy way to build a ZFF like PWM.

There is a guy on the HHOFORUM that sell a PCB board for the ZFF pwm. Cost about $10.00.
01-29-2009 05:36 PM
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