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Question-EFIE or no EFIE
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rpatzer Offline
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Post: #1
Question-EFIE or no EFIE
Mike- if one uses only either a gas vaporizer or an HHO unit, wouldn't that make the mix richer, being detected by the O2 and being fed back to the ECU as being rich, allowing the ECU to cut back on the fuel? Why is the "rich signal" from an EFIE different from a rich signal from a mod unit only? Why does the EFIE need to be in line?
05-26-2008 02:09 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Question-EFIE or no EFIE
Either or both of those units will not give a rich signal. They give a lean signal, which causes the ECU to make the mix richer. That's the problem the EFIE is solving.

Any technology that improves fuel combustion, will cause more oxygen to be in the exhaust. That oxygen is read by the computer as being a lean mix. It then adds gas to compensate. The EFIE gives a richer signal, which is designed to offset this factor.

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05-26-2008 03:15 PM
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rpatzer Offline
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RE: Question-EFIE or no EFIE
Mike- 1- When I vaporize gas, is there more O2 than gas given off?
2- Are you saying that the by-product of more complete combustion is more O2?
3- If so- then, does that mean that the O2 concentration inside the engine/exhaust is greater than the external O2?
4- If so, then it seems the O2 sensor should read rich, thus leaning out the ECU.
05-26-2008 05:05 PM
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mike Offline
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RE: Question-EFIE or no EFIE
rpatzer Wrote:Mike- 1- When I vaporize gas, is there more O2 than gas given off?
2- Are you saying that the by-product of more complete combustion is more O2?
3- If so- then, does that mean that the O2 concentration inside the engine/exhaust is greater than the external O2?
4- If so, then it seems the O2 sensor should read rich, thus leaning out the ECU.

Answers:
1) No
2) YES! That's what I'm saying.
3) I actually don't know this. What I'm saying, though, is that there is more O2 in the exhaust than there was before you added the combustion enhancement technology.
4) No. The ECU determines the air/fuel ratio based on the readings coming from the oxygen sensor (actually this is an over-simplification, because there are other sensors, but that's another story). But basically, more oxygen in the exhaust means a leaner condition to the ECU. The mix isn't actually leaner. There's just more oxygen in the exhaust, which fools the computer into "thinking" the mix is leaner. It therefore adds gas to compensate. This is an incorrect action on the ECU's part.

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05-26-2008 05:14 PM
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rpatzer Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Question-EFIE or no EFIE
Actually I don't think it "fools" the ECU into thinking it is leaner, it actually is leaner. More O2 causes the ratio to go higher than the 14.7:1 causing the ECU to richen up to bring it back to stoich. OK I see where the EFIE comes in- to fool the ECU into thinking it is rich instead of lean.
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2008 06:30 PM by rpatzer.)
05-26-2008 05:31 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Question-EFIE or no EFIE
Actually it does fool the computer. The computer uses the amount of oxygen in the exhaust to deduce the amount of fuel in the mix. When you add oxygen to that system, the computer deduces (by means of it's lookup tables), that there is less fuel than there actually is. That's because it's not measuring fuel, it's measuring oxygen. However, after having added oxygen the ECU now thinks there is less fuel than there actually is. So it adds gas. Incorrectly.

Then, as I can see you have understood, the EFIE re-fools it in the opposite direction. But the real goal is to just get it back to where it started. AFR ratio sensors will still read this as being lean, because no matter what you use to read the air/fuel ratio, they all base their calcs on oxygen content alone. But once you add HHO, or any other combustion enhancement technology, these readings will be skewed towards lean. And by that I mean they will read leaner than they should. They are all being fooled.

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05-27-2008 02:40 AM
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rpatzer Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Question-EFIE or no EFIE
Mike- I did talk to Denso technical and he said the O2 sensor does measure the O2 difference between internal and external O2. That establishes a reference point. That is what determines if the internal is lean or rich. I guess the external O2 content would vary with humidity, elevation etc. so that would have a bearing on the internal read.
He also said there is no O2 from gas combustion, it is just Hydrogen & Carbon. The O2 comes from the intake manifold. So when I am putting in gas vapors, I am not adding O2, but gas in more combustible form. At most I can gain some power before it reads too rich. That is where the EFIE comes in.

Mike- here is what that says to me- O2 content to the combustion mix is constant while the gas can be leaned out or riched up. It also says that the HHO people are adding more O2 to the system by breaking H2O into H2 & O. I would think that the HHO people in the long run might have more heat problems and maybe more cat problems than the gas vaporizers and would produce more NOXs.
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2008 09:32 AM by rpatzer.)
05-27-2008 08:44 AM
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