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Question on NaOH concentration
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cheapfuel Offline
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Post: #1
Question on NaOH concentration
I am still Bench Testing my oxy=hydrogen generators. I have built 3 generators. Just guessing my NaOh concentration was about 1/2 teaspoon per liter of distilled water. Each generator produced between 300 and 400 ml/min of HHO at about 30 amps. When I connected the 3 in series I got about 400 ml/min at approximately 10 amp draw. I added another 1/4 teaspoon of NaOH to the generator and did not notice any noticeable change so added another 1/4 teaspoon of NaOH with really no noticeable change...maybe very little increase in amperage ...certainly not more than 2 amps.

My question is this would you recommend I add more NaOH? I don't mind going to 15 amps or even 20 amps with the 3 in series. I will let what I got sit for a while and check for leaks and try again. There must be a limit as to how much NaOH I can use to affect change. Is there a saturation point at which more NaOH has no effect? If I can increase production with more NaOH and increased amperage, I can always add another generator to bring the amperage down. Anyone had any similar experiences? What did you do?
07-05-2008 01:35 PM
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skiers4ever Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Question on NaOH concentration
Hi cheapfuel,

I've noticed with my gen that there is a memory effect between mix changes. I have to wait up to 2 days worth of driving (about an hour to an hour and a half each day) before I see what the true amperage/temp (and surely HHO production but I don't test each time) is going to be after each mix change. You're probably waiting but I thought I'd mention it just in case. Or, maybe it doesn't matter for your system.

Also, I've been told by others that one should always drain the current mix, add more NaOH (or whatever), shake well, and then put it back into the Gen. Adding NaOH directly to the mix while it's in the Gen doesn't work as well.

Maybe someone else with more knowledge/experience can reply if either are correct or not. I would be curious to the answer to your question on whether or not there is a "saturation point".

John

2007 Honda Ridgeline 3.5L 4WD
Hydro Super 2 installed on 5/21/08
Colorado - 10,000 Feet!
07-05-2008 02:03 PM
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cheapfuel Offline
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RE: Question on NaOH concentration
Thank you skiers4ever for your reply. I am going to wait 24 hours and let the mix really get throughly mixed. It will take me a while to recharge my battery anyway as I am using a battery to do my bench tests. If it still reads about 10 amps I will add another 1/2 teaspoon of NaOH. I have noticed that that the generators are fairly cool (certainly not hot....only slightly warm). Like I said I don't mind getting to 20 amps. Adding a 4th generator will bring that down. When I get closer to 1000 ml/min and hopefully maybe around 15 amps I will install it in the truck and begin MPG tests. I will install the EFIE at the same time. I only have one oxygen sensor before the catholic heater.
07-05-2008 02:52 PM
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baracuda Offline
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RE: Question on NaOH concentration
Suggestion;

Use your ohm meter to check the resistance of the whole circuit, with your solution in the generator ( with both the positive and negative disconnected from the power source )
Pour out and save the batch of solution you're in question about in some other container.
Mix up another batch of solution using your original recipe and pour it into your generator. Again with power disconnected measure the resistance of the whole circuit.

Compare the two readings and that might point you in one direction or the other.

To answer your question about saturation. I would think yes, there's probably a point where the solution has become as conductive as it can be.

You can't skin a fish before you catch it !
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2008 03:39 PM by baracuda.)
07-05-2008 03:37 PM
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cheapfuel Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Question on NaOH concentration
Thanks for your suggestions baracuda. The idea of measuring the resistance with an ohm meter bring another point into view. It is a great way to compare the generators. Sometimes one generator can be more effect than another; or one may even malfunction.
07-05-2008 06:48 PM
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Dino Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Question on NaOH concentration
Wow that's a great idea I can't believe I never thought of thatSmile


baracuda Wrote:Suggestion;

Use your ohm meter to check the resistance of the whole circuit, with your solution in the generator ( with both the positive and negative disconnected from the power source )
Pour out and save the batch of solution you're in question about in some other container.
Mix up another batch of solution using your original recipe and pour it into your generator. Again with power disconnected measure the resistance of the whole circuit.

Compare the two readings and that might point you in one direction or the other.

To answer your question about saturation. I would think yes, there's probably a point where the solution has become as conductive as it can be.
07-05-2008 07:33 PM
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baracuda Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Question on NaOH concentration
cheapfuel Wrote:Thanks for your suggestions baracuda. The idea of measuring the resistance with an ohm meter bring another point into view. It is a great way to compare the generators. Sometimes one generator can be more effect than another; or one may even malfunction.

Your welcome,
Exactly...... Just measure each cell individually and dilute or concentrate your electrolyte per cell until they all read the same resistance. That way you insure that each of your cells in the series set up are applying a balanced load throughout the circuit.

You can't skin a fish before you catch it !
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2008 09:34 PM by baracuda.)
07-05-2008 09:31 PM
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visek Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Question on NaOH concentration
cheapfuel Wrote:Thank you skiers4ever for your reply. I am going to wait 24 hours and let the mix really get throughly mixed.

I'm finding that 24-48 hrs are required to gets things to stabilize to the new mix ratio. Either just sitting or maybe running some. Very easy to keep adding electrolyte and overshoot a lot.

I kept adding NaOH and eventually had my cells running close to 30 amps...designed for a max 12 amps...nothing melted.

Maybe if you pressure wash the plates...you would see an immediate amp change?
07-06-2008 05:08 AM
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cheapfuel Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Question on NaOH concentration
Good point, visek, I will wait for maybe more than 24 hours. With the 3 cells I want to get either close to 1000 ml/ min with a max of 20 amps. If I reach 30 amps in order to get close to 1000 ml/min I will add another generator. I am making installation space in case I need to do that. I guess even 500 ml/min would give some saving on a 5.7 liter engine. I plan to inject into the throat of the trottle body. I do not want too much suction. On the other hand, I don't want to lose more than 10% of the gas either. (no more than 1 % loss through out the system. Up to a maximum of 10% loss at the point of injection. I can't measure these...only guess). By the way, has anyone bought a hydrogen sensor. I would like to install one under the hood that would warn me of an excessive gas leak (hydrogen) under the hood. When an warning alarm + light come on I can just turn the system of manually. Never no when a malfunction can occur; loose connection or whatever.
07-06-2008 07:25 AM
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