Yodamaker Wrote:I believe that we have touched on the holy grail of the situation. The ECU is the key. It was programmed for the conditions of burning gasoline not anything else. Has anyone thought about reprogramming the ECU rather than just manipulating the sensor data?
It's the ECU that makes it a gasoline setup. The engine doesnt care wether it is gasoline or another fuel really, it's just an internal combustion engine. With that being said, even the BMW hybrid has a hydrogen system and a gasoline system side by side and can switch fuels on the fly. It seems to me that all we would need to do is alter the programming of the ECU to accomodate the alternate fuel or the change in the burn characteristics when mixing the fuels.
I realize that all this research and effort would seem consuming and the circuitry we need is already in the car. If we can find the correct parameters, we should be able to re-program the existing ECU. That would eliminate the need for countless circuits and bypass electronic countermeasures. Not all cars have the same computer components so there will always be some cars that dont fit into the equation. But the expense would be a software solution rather than a hardware nightmare.
HOWDY: Your right about the rom code of th ECU. Problem as I see it is that access to the ECU is very poor. In the early days , when first introduced, sorta of a beta test, in an earlier thread I wrote , that some friends and I, used to reprogram the ecu's. the rom code was written in MOTOROLA MC 680000 machine code. In some, we were able to replace the existing processor with a TMS 7742 , which is a programable processor. I haven't the foggest what is being used these days in current ECU units. Never the less, PICS and basic stamps are pretty good for using as a emulator..after all, no matter what type of chip set is being used, its still a proceesor with a rom code telling it what to do ie RETROFIT!.. I caution here , that the cost factor via labour intensive and skill level could be inhibitive for some. I , am , well versed in pcb design, smc. sma etc. , lsi and write in 18 different computer languages, I have about 35 years expierence in building retrofit boards and writing software.Even as such the best design rule for me, has been to modify the existing hardware. Most ECU units , That I have viewed recently are covered with a security epoxy, this can be removed using a 1200 to 1400 watt paint striping gun. Next , you have to identify the proceesor and is associated componets, i/o devices, gates and so forth. fear not , because, even if it turns out to be of a LSI nature, the rom code still has to be transmitted to the unit at the completion of its inseption on an assembly line, which means somwhere is a i/o with a gate that allows you to R/W ,read /write, caution some programble chips have a built in fusable link, that only allows for a single write and checksum then the internal fuse blows .So the race would be on ,to gain access to the rom code, so as it could be dissassemabled . Well I , is not going to go much further on this thread with this idea , because it should be easy to see that the process is much harder than is sounds, but with enough time ,it could be had if not already on somebodies shelf. Probably is, because another thread indicates a aftermarket ECU that you can program , for 1000 to 2000 bucks.. there gas my gas savings down the tube. Hybirds running twin fuel system , have been designed to do so , so as there are some major differences in the motors of a dual burning system. One of the problems of running hydrogen, in a gas burner engine, is the materials that was used to construct the engine. The coating and remilling of the pistons and valves was to mainly retard embrillelment, As TY ROBINSON indicated , he has been using browns gas for years,, well almost , his converstions run multable fuels , so as the motor isn't 24/7 the same all of the time. Embrilltlement, as I agree with TY , is insignificant in engines which use multable fuels or browns gas with a smaller amount of petro. Not going to go much further here at the moment , just old news being rehashed on my part. Conclusions are , for me, is , it is better to run a gas burning engine with some gas, just minimise the amount. Also an outboard pic controller or basic stamp, configered, is inexpensive in comparison to any other solution I've seen, IE programable pic boards cost around $48.00 or so. You wouldn't need the rom code of the ECU for this, just a table of data to build the stack registers ,for the best part would probably be a device that could generally be used on any car as you would be looking at sampling data from all of the sensors , temp etc and the pic or basic stamp would send as a default, the information that the ecu WOULD LOOK FOR IN A OPITMIM BURN SCENIARO! By being able to program the pic or stamp, you should be able to customize the unit for best perfermance. The collection of data needed here is sensor readings as an input variable . based on a curve that represents a huge range of operating conditions versus the output of the ECU unit . (I/O). From there, a program can be written for the pics or basic stamp. GOTTA RUN FOR NOW MIKE