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Results
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pfai Offline
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Post: #1
Results
Hi All, This site has been quiet since before Christmas, anyone having good results with H2 systems? I have finally gotten mine to where it is ready for actual vehicle testing. Had cell together and ran for 6 hours on the bench,@11 amp draw produced 1 liter of H2 in one minute 15 seconds and ran @ 130 degrees F. Cell leaked where my membranes were laminated , used CA glue and would not stand up to the electrolyte. Have now remade my membranes using GOOP but will have to dry for 3 days before can retest on the bench then install on my car.
Vehicle it is goin on is 1994 Mercedes C220 with 2.2 liter engine.Have had limited success on it with HHO, went form stock 25 mpg to 29 mpg and reliably stayed there for about 6 months while I have been chasing this H2 deal. Will disconnect all my enhancements before running straight H2 and report back with results.
Paul
02-24-2009 02:15 PM
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pfai Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Results
Just an update, installed system yesterday,2-25-09, and seems to be working. Say this because felt an immediate smoothness/power increase-too soon to tell about mpg. Am venting o2 side to atmosphere.
Paul
02-26-2009 06:35 AM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Results
Good luck man. I couldn't get my 3 cell to give results, so went to other projects, but still have plans to build a 4N2 h2 cell. Right now, the membranes we (Doug) built so laboriously won't work due to adhesive problems. Without money right now, I can only work on one project at a time.
BTW, your cell didn't produce .8L/min @11 amps. That would equate to 1.6L/min. HHO, and no one's done that. (the B cell people claim to tho) Perhaps you measured with a .5L bottle and forgot to double the time measurement? Still a good number at 400ml/min. I was using 340ml.
02-26-2009 04:30 PM
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pfai Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Results
Hey Gary, Glad to hear from you again . My test was done with a 1 liter bottle and results were accurate. 1 liter in 1 min,15 seconds @ 11amps. O2 line in water ,H2 line hooked to gauge. Production was from a 4n2 unit and is now installed in my vehicle.
Filled it up for 1st test and is showing some mileage but not as good as I had hoped for. I removed my EFIE and sensor modifications to put the car back to stock, now only enhancement is the H2 and it got what it was getting with HHO and all the enhancements,which is 29 MPG. Car in stock form gets around 25 mpg.I am going to run another tank before I start adding sensor enhancements to attempt further mpg improvements.
Paul
02-27-2009 05:41 AM
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Gary Offline
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RE: Results
Okay, it's still probably what I thought it was, or nearly so. I found that with the two outfeed lines, balance was extremely crucial to get total separation. For instance:
With both lines in the water, and one just a bit lower than the other, production from the lower one would nearly or totally cease. The gas just blows through the membrane to the side with the least resistance (pressure) and out that hose. It works either way.
The only way to test it properly is to have BOTH lines submerged at the same depth, and only put the H2 line into the bottle.
The second test is for gas purity. Keeping the lines submerged, separate them and light the bubbles. The O2 will just puff the flame a little and the H2 will have soft little puffy pops. If the h2 pops hard or the o2 pops at all, your membrane is leaking or the lines uneven.
I just can't accept an mmw factor above all else we've been able to accomplish with our best efforts, and that's why I'm thinking that your pressures were uneven and putting o2 out with the h2.
No offense, just stating the facts man!
02-27-2009 07:40 AM
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pfai Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Results
If unbalance were the case, I would see a decrease or elimination of o2 bubbles while H2 line is hooked to the bottle, did not happen. I don't need to prove anything, just sharin' my results.Also, did the "light the bubbles test"--passed with flyin' colors-no pop on o2 side, gentle pop on H2-far different than HHO, which I am also familiar with.
Paul
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2009 09:27 AM by pfai.)
02-27-2009 08:38 AM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Results
(02-27-2009 08:38 AM)pfai Wrote:  If unbalance were the case, I would see a decrease or elimination of o2 bubbles while H2 line is hooked to the bottle, did not happen. I don't need to prove anything, just sharin' my results.Also, did the "light the bubbles test"--passed with flyin' colors-no pop on o2 side, gentle pop on H2-far different than HHO, which I am also familiar with.
Paul

Perhaps you've uncovered something we've missed, so I'll concede for now.
But now I want to see this cell!!! Must be big.
02-27-2009 11:41 AM
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pfai Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Results
Actually, plates are only 2"x6". Building membranes for 6"x6" 4N2 cell.
Gotta let glue dry and all that, be late next week before can report bench findings on it. Hope everyone has a nice weekend, will check back 1st of the week.Gary, my cells look a lot like the pictures I have seen of yours except I have 2 inlets @ the bottom and 2 outlets at the top and I use 2 separate reservoirs.
Paul
02-27-2009 12:19 PM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Results
Something like this here? Heheh!
[img][Image: 5x7dry002.jpg][/img]
02-27-2009 05:59 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Results
(02-27-2009 07:40 AM)Gary Wrote:  Okay, it's still probably what I thought it was, or nearly so. I found that with the two outfeed lines, balance was extremely crucial to get total separation. For instance:
With both lines in the water, and one just a bit lower than the other, production from the lower one would nearly or totally cease. The gas just blows through the membrane to the side with the least resistance (pressure) and out that hose.

I'm with Gary on this one, that's what I experienced as well. IMO you'd want two bottles so identical back pressure.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
02-28-2009 07:46 AM
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