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Saturn Setup
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mattsauto Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Saturn Setup
hydrodine Wrote:
mattsauto Wrote:
hydrodine Wrote:Here is my saturn setup, cell works great but no increase in mileage.

http://www.nature-powered.com/saturn

series cell, 9 amp hot, 1.2 lpm and 105 degree temp.

Is this a 5 series cell ???

2.8v at each cell at 14v???

are you using 2 (two) plates only (in each cell)???

Is your KOH concentration Below 24%???

Let me know...

Yes to all except koh, i used 4 tablespoons to a gallon of water, that gives me the 9 amps hot.

this is in the 8-10% mark..............

Check this: http://www.mattsauto.com/i/6.png

1 - load as much as possible 304 or 316 plates in those cells

2 - keep KOH concentration below 6%

3 - install this macho looking unit as close as possible to the
intake 4-5 ft max., using 3/8 hard plastic tubing

4 - install 3/8 copper tube near your exhaust manifold (1/2" away will do just fine) and run the hho gas though to the intake manifold

5 - for the first test use 7-8 raps of aluminum foil around the o2 sensor and REMOVE the electronic o2 adjuster

6 - let me know...
07-08-2008 06:34 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Saturn Setup
Hydro, have you tried just the EFIE or just HHO and checked your mileage? Either one on it's own should give you a mileage gain.

With your cell about 5-6x more efficient, I would think about 4-5 amps should be adequate for a 2 liter engine.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-08-2008 07:02 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Saturn Setup
Yes, I agree. That cell looks fabulous. But check out this article: How Much HHO Should I Use?. You may have created a cell that'll be great in a semi tractor trailer but is too much for your car.

I would check out less amps if the unit is still efficient. I would imagine so.

After that, I would start looking for mechanical problems that aren't HHO related but could be blocking gains. Bad O2 sensors will pretty well nullify anything you do. Same with MAP/MAF but they don't go bad as often. Have all of your diagnostic codes checked out, and a full tuneup. That kind of thing. Something is blocking your gains, and it needs to be isolated and handled. You may need to get a good mechanic involved.

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07-08-2008 07:34 PM
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hydrodine Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Saturn Setup
mattsauto Wrote:
hydrodine Wrote:
mattsauto Wrote:
hydrodine Wrote:Here is my saturn setup, cell works great but no increase in mileage.

http://www.nature-powered.com/saturn

series cell, 9 amp hot, 1.2 lpm and 105 degree temp.

Is this a 5 series cell ???

2.8v at each cell at 14v???

are you using 2 (two) plates only (in each cell)???

Is your KOH concentration Below 24%???

Let me know...

Yes to all except koh, i used 4 tablespoons to a gallon of water, that gives me the 9 amps hot.

this is in the 8-10% mark..............

Check this: http://www.mattsauto.com/i/6.png

1 - load as much as possible 304 or 316 plates in those cells

2 - keep KOH concentration below 6%

3 - install this macho looking unit as close as possible to the
intake 4-5 ft max., using 3/8 hard plastic tubing

4 - install 3/8 copper tube near your exhaust manifold (1/2" away will do just fine) and run the hho gas though to the intake manifold

5 - for the first test use 7-8 raps of aluminum foil around the o2 sensor and REMOVE the electronic o2 adjuster

6 - let me know...

I will try that, there is no way to get the cell under the hood, the saturn is so tight even in front of the radiator. I will try everything else and see. thanks will let you know.
07-09-2008 04:57 AM
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hydrodine Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Saturn Setup
mike Wrote:Yes, I agree. That cell looks fabulous. But check out this article: How Much HHO Should I Use?. You may have created a cell that'll be great in a semi tractor trailer but is too much for your car.

I would check out less amps if the unit is still efficient. I would imagine so.

After that, I would start looking for mechanical problems that aren't HHO related but could be blocking gains. Bad O2 sensors will pretty well nullify anything you do. Same with MAP/MAF but they don't go bad as often. Have all of your diagnostic codes checked out, and a full tuneup. That kind of thing. Something is blocking your gains, and it needs to be isolated and handled. You may need to get a good mechanic involved.

Mike, 1.2 lpm is not that great, smack and others produce more then that. I have tried other cells i made that was .5 lpm and same thing no gains. The car is mech. sound, i replaced the o2 sensor like you said to do before. 9 amp current draw hot is not that great. I think the saturn computer or OBD II in general is designed to put a certain amount of gas to the motor. Thats my thoughts. I am going to try a couple of more things and if nothing helps its to ebay with all this stuff.
07-09-2008 09:20 AM
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rebel Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Saturn Setup
hydrodine Wrote:I am getting so feed up with no gains, map, efi etc... I know it is not my cell design, it works to good to be a problem. I am open to any suggestions to get some mileage gain.

Nice job there on your cells..... I do not see any bubbler under the hood( maybe it is buried under something) .... How do you know that you are getting the HHO to the engine? A bubbler just before the HHO input to the engine would show whether the HHO is getting there. No bubbles in the bubbler means No HHO getting to that point.

A bubbler is a necessary safety device as a flash back arrester and also to scrub contaminents fromt HHO before getting into the engine.

Don't give up yet.... The answer may be just around the corner!
07-09-2008 12:02 PM
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CraigBMM Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Saturn Setup
rebel Wrote:
hydrodine Wrote:I am getting so feed up with no gains, map, efi etc... I know it is not my cell design, it works to good to be a problem. I am open to any suggestions to get some mileage gain.

Nice job there on your cells..... I do not see any bubbler under the hood( maybe it is buried under something) .... How do you know that you are getting the HHO to the engine? A bubbler just before the HHO input to the engine would show whether the HHO is getting there. No bubbles in the bubbler means No HHO getting to that point.

A bubbler is a necessary safety device as a flash back arrester and also to scrub contaminents fromt HHO before getting into the engine.

Don't give up yet.... The answer may be just around the corner!

hmm sounds to me like the computer is going into open loop mode and adding more fuel , on this Efie .. can you get the car to run lean adjusting that? where it starts to cough and sputter? same with MAP .. can you get the engine to lean and run rough ? basically is it working right?

also any check valves restricting flow?

check this vid out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgHJDD6UK0A


also wulfram just installed a sys on his mothers 95 Saturn , got 48 mpg first test , no o2 or MAP mod.
so have hope , this will work on Saturns , another Saturn i heard got awsome results of 80 ish to 90 ish mpg with EFIE and MAP mods.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2008 12:53 PM by CraigBMM.)
07-09-2008 12:46 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Saturn Setup
CraigBMM Wrote:also wulfram just installed a sys on his mothers 95 Saturn , got 48 mpg first test , no o2 or MAP mod.
so have hope , this will work on Saturns , another Saturn i heard got awsome results of 80 ish to 90 ish mpg with EFIE and MAP mods.

I saw that last night too and thought these two guys need to talk.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-09-2008 03:35 PM
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hydrodine Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Saturn Setup
rebel Wrote:
hydrodine Wrote:I am getting so feed up with no gains, map, efi etc... I know it is not my cell design, it works to good to be a problem. I am open to any suggestions to get some mileage gain.

Nice job there on your cells..... I do not see any bubbler under the hood( maybe it is buried under something) .... How do you know that you are getting the HHO to the engine? A bubbler just before the HHO input to the engine would show whether the HHO is getting there. No bubbles in the bubbler means No HHO getting to that point.

A bubbler is a necessary safety device as a flash back arrester and also to scrub contaminents fromt HHO before getting into the engine.

Don't give up yet.... The answer may be just around the corner!

Bubbler is below brake booster, i have 1.2 lpm on the flow gauge at the beather box.
07-09-2008 04:12 PM
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hydrodine Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Saturn Setup
CraigBMM Wrote:
rebel Wrote:
hydrodine Wrote:I am getting so feed up with no gains, map, efi etc... I know it is not my cell design, it works to good to be a problem. I am open to any suggestions to get some mileage gain.

Nice job there on your cells..... I do not see any bubbler under the hood( maybe it is buried under something) .... How do you know that you are getting the HHO to the engine? A bubbler just before the HHO input to the engine would show whether the HHO is getting there. No bubbles in the bubbler means No HHO getting to that point.

A bubbler is a necessary safety device as a flash back arrester and also to scrub contaminents fromt HHO before getting into the engine.

Don't give up yet.... The answer may be just around the corner!

hmm sounds to me like the computer is going into open loop mode and adding more fuel , on this Efie .. can you get the car to run lean adjusting that? where it starts to cough and sputter? same with MAP .. can you get the engine to lean and run rough ? basically is it working right?

also any check valves restricting flow?

check this vid out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgHJDD6UK0A


also wulfram just installed a sys on his mothers 95 Saturn , got 48 mpg first test , no o2 or MAP mod.
so have hope , this will work on Saturns , another Saturn i heard got awsome results of 80 ish to 90 ish mpg with EFIE and MAP mods.

95 saturn is OBD I not OBD II, As stated before i know of no one with a working hho saturn with OBD II. Also my scangauge shows closed loop.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2008 04:56 PM by hydrodine.)
07-09-2008 04:16 PM
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