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So what's wrong with this Gen?
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Nick_Greyden Offline
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Post: #1
So what's wrong with this Gen?
I've been kicking around idea after idea. I orginally thought of tapping of the alternator to hit the AC current, running that through a transformer, then popping back over to DC to increase the voltage of the thing. With Voltage increased and current staying the same, resistance HAS to increase thus giving the oppurtinity to increase the number of "trees" that are in this diagram. Currently, my only concern is that each cell, having only .20 Ohms of resistance will be too much like a short (not to mention a hell of a lot of NaOH) and just short the whole system out. Try as I might, I can't find out if this matters on a parallel circuit because of Total Resistance, or if it does, what number of Ohms will constitute a "short" in the system.

Anyway, feel free to rip this apart and tell me what's wrong :-)

[Image: whatswronguv3.png]

Edit: God I suck. The tree amperage should be 10A and each cell amperage should be 10A
07-04-2008 12:08 AM
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Atfab Offline
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Post: #2
RE: So what's wrong with this Gen?
I don't believe that you can use Ohm's Law for anything more than an rough estimate.

There are so many other variables, plate spacing, current leakage around the plates, current leakage between "trees". Don't forget the capacitance effect of series cells and the magnetic fields around them.

Atfab
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07-04-2008 01:19 AM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #3
RE: So what's wrong with this Gen?
Looks like a heat bomb to me, but you could try it. Also, would not the alternator suffer? It can only do so much at a time, or are you putting a second alternator on it?
07-04-2008 05:12 AM
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baracuda Offline
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Post: #4
RE: So what's wrong with this Gen?
Nick,
I thought you were attempting to increase the voltage. Looks like you just have three series circuits in parallel still using 14 volts.

If you tapped the A/C side, stepped it up then rectified it. Lets say your end result was 42vdc. Then you could run all 21 cells in series with the same amperage as one 7 cell tree on 14vdc.

Does that make sense?

You can't skin a fish before you catch it !
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2008 05:26 AM by baracuda.)
07-04-2008 05:25 AM
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Milosm Offline
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Post: #5
RE: So what's wrong with this Gen?
First off the .20 ohms figure is only good for one cell for a 7 (+& -) series cell at 14 volts and at 10 amps. If you want to crank up the voltage and maintain the same current, you will have to adjust the number of cells in your tree give you 2 volts per cell drop and adjust your electrolyte concentration.
Your math is correct, you just need to plug in the correct numbers.
07-04-2008 09:10 AM
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Nick_Greyden Offline
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Post: #6
RE: So what's wrong with this Gen?
The idea is to tweak with minor effects of electrolyte until you meet the required voltage and amperage which in turn gives you the desired resistance. The resistance value will simply BE if the other 2 are correct reguardless of current leaks due to the nature of ohm's law. the resistance value is nothing more for me than to be correct with the rest of the circuit. As far as leakage between trees, I guess I failed to mention that every cell was 2 cells, no neutrals, each in it's own bath.

Heat is a loss of energy factor that I did not take into account. Once again this is just theory, but something to be investigated.

Last night I dreamed of building this cell with a transformer but seemed to recall that uping the voltage decreases current so it's kind of anti-effective if this is the case but as I'm on my way to a 4th of July party, I'll do more research on it tonight as to the amperage loss but I think it will be too much to matter, so it's a scrap.

The benefits of this design is increased surface area of cells, but without the desired amperage to do the job, I dont' know how well it will work. This would also answer several questions such as

Is it voltage, amperage, or power that determines HHO output.

Does surface area matter and if so how much (I don't expect to come out with any formula, but a rough idea if it matters or not)

Do more cells = more output (see 1 and 2)

Good thoughts guys... keep them comming.
07-04-2008 09:23 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #7
RE: So what's wrong with this Gen?
Nick_Greyden Wrote:Last night I dreamed of building this cell with a transformer but seemed to recall that uping the voltage decreases current so it's kind of anti-effective if this is the case but as I'm on my way to a 4th of July party, I'll do more research on it tonight as to the amperage loss but I think it will be too much to matter, so it's a scrap.

Assuming your resistance is constant (and I doubt it would be), doubling the voltage, doubles the current.

I = E/R

Rick

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07-04-2008 09:26 AM
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Nick_Greyden Offline
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Post: #8
RE: So what's wrong with this Gen?
True, but I still seem to recall that a transformer keeps the same power in watts. P = VI, so if Voltage goes up, current drops. I'm almost absolutely sure of this because I remember thinking it was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard of in my AC class.

EDIT: GAH you people are making me late :-)

I"m so OCD *sigh*

http://www.explainthatstuff.com/transformers.html
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2008 09:46 AM by Nick_Greyden.)
07-04-2008 09:38 AM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #9
RE: So what's wrong with this Gen?
I feel ya. The ol' lady's hollerin' at ME! this stuff is SO addictive!
07-04-2008 10:01 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #10
RE: So what's wrong with this Gen?
Nick_Greyden Wrote:True, but I still seem to recall that a transformer keeps the same power in watts. P = VI, so if Voltage goes up, current drops. I'm almost absolutely sure of this because I remember thinking it was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard of in my AC class.

Not relevant. Increase the voltage to your cell and the current will increase. Your transformer may not be able to keep up, but that's a different problem.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2008 10:39 AM by colchiro.)
07-04-2008 10:38 AM
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