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Something is definetly wired wrong!!!
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boarderguy83 Offline
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Post: #1
Something is definetly wired wrong!!!
Hey there,

I've been having problems for the last month since I installed my Dual Efie. I have been getting the same bad mileage since I installed the device. I have a working Hydrogen electrolyzer running and producing burnable gas. (I've tested it.) I've installed the device according to the instructions and offset the voltage but with no difference in engine power or performance. I drive a supercharged pontiac Grand Prix.

I've tested for what voltages I'm getting using a thread that was posted a little while ago

1) Engine running, voltage between red and black EFIE test points. This value should be fairly steady after the EFIE has come up to it's full voltage. (5 minutes or so)

Voltage is at .725

2) Black probe on your car's ground (or black battery terminal), and your red probe in the EFIE's black test point. This should be a variable amount, constantly changing. What is the range of this voltage. It should be the output of your oxygen sensor.

Voltage is at .650

3) Black probe on your car's ground, and red probe in the EFIE's red test point. This should also be constantly varying, and should be the same as 1 and 2 above combined. For instance if reading above 1 is .155 volts and reading 2 above is varying between .2 and .7 volts, then test 3 should be reading between .355 and .855 volts (constantly changing). This would be the output of the oxygen sensor plus the voltage added by the EFIE.

Voltage is at .068

I've double check my connections, retested voltages and I haven't gotten any different results. I've gone through many tanks of gas and I've used about 12 different setting from high to low with no improvement.

Hopefully someone might have a clue as to what I'm doing wrong. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Roger
02-20-2008 07:40 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Something is definetly wired wrong!!!
First: .725 is way too high. If your check engine light isn't coming on, then there's something wrong with your computer. Lower the EFIE's setting to .125, then after testing your mileage, start raising it from there.

At test number 2, the voltage of .650 should not be a steady voltage, as you point out. Was your voltage changing? It should've been, but I need to know that it was. If it wasn't, your sensor isn't working.

Your 3rd reading has got me scratching my head, but about the only way I can see this happening is if the sensor and computer wires (white and green wires on the EFIE cable) were hooked up in reverse. If you wire the EFIE in reverse, then the EFIE voltage will be subtracted from the sensor's output rather than added to it. This would go in reverse of what you're trying to do.

Please verify that you have cut the oxygen sensor's signal wire and connected the green wire (in the EFIE cable) to the oxygen sensor, and the white wire is connected to the computer (ECU or PCM).

You make no mention of a check engine light, yet if the CEL is on, and it's saying the oxygen sensor is faulty, then the computer will ignore it's information. At that point it will "guess" at the air/fuel mixture, and it always guesses in the direction of too rich. Result is your mpg goes down.

If you are absolutely sure of the above, then, we had better check the functioning of the EFIE. If the EFIE is removed from the car circuitry, you can verify it's functioning by the following tests:

1) hook up 12 volts to the red and black wire (+ to red wire).
2) verify the voltage comes up between the red/black test ports. Test both pairs for a Dual EFIE Deluxe
3) verify that the same voltages are appearing on the white/green wires and the blue/brown wires, as these should be connected to the test ports.
4) Test for a short to the black wire, from each of the signal wires: white, green, blue, brown.
5 While we're at it, make the same test between the red wire and the signal wires.

If these all pass, then the EFIE is working. The fact that you're getting .725 volts out of one of the EFIE ports tells me that the range is set too high. I would go ahead and adjust the range of both sides of your Dual EFIE to .500 or so. See EFIE Range Adjustment Instructions, for instructions how to do this.

From the information I see here, it sounds like the EFIE has been hooked up incorrectly (white and green wires reversed, or blue and brown wires reversed). However, verify the installation as above, then if no joy, test the unit as described, and let me know what you find out.

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02-20-2008 09:45 PM
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dwbow1 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Something is definetly wired wrong!!!
Hello,I know what you are going thru,I have just now found the "sweet spot" on my efie,after a lot of trials with not much improvement in mpg,and many email talks with Mike,I have started to see some improvement.First let me say this,am no expert in any of this,I am experimenting and learning as I go.
The one thing that really looks out of place in your figures is the voltage (.725}between the red and black ports on the efie,I cant determine the reason why,but this voltage is way to high according to what I have seen on the efie on my vehicle 05 chevy sillverado 5.3. The operating voltage on the 02 sensors is somewhere between 300mv and 650mv.my CEL comes on when offset is at 220mv. With the sweet spot being at 165-170mv.hope this helps.
02-20-2008 09:47 PM
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tanahiro Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Something is definetly wired wrong!!!
thanks, dwbow1 because i have a pontiac grand prix but mine is 3.8l 2006. and i am getting crazy for the setting stuff. i will try with this spot and i will tell you how much i got. please i would like to be in touch. can you tell me where you connect your cell tube lines. i connect mine in the cool air intake, because i didn't found a vacuum hose, except the one that is in the brake boost. can you help me with that? if you can please send me a photo, i will really appreciate it.

another thing. are you using the single of the double efie? your car have one or two upstream? mine have 1up and one down. i am using the single efie. but i am thinking to use the double to control the downstream too. i dont know if the downstream play a game with the hho stuff and the signal.
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2008 09:15 AM by tanahiro.)
02-21-2008 07:48 AM
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dwbow1 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Something is definetly wired wrong!!!
Hello,about the tube lines,what kind of electrolizer do you have? I first connected into the air intake as close to the throttle body as possible,do you have a venturi to connect your hho feed inside the air intake?(it should have come with you kit).Did you get your offset voltage in the right area? I read Mikes post to you,sounds like if you follow his instructions you will get back to where you need to be.Will help you as much as I can,however I have made several modifacations on my HHO system,I am a sub distributor for a company that makes HHO kits,and am working closley with them testing different ways to deliver the HHO gas to the engine. If you want to see the system I started with go to my web site, hybridhhofuel.com it is the model 11a (brick). I have the double efie.
02-21-2008 07:25 PM
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dwbow1 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Something is definetly wired wrong!!!
Tanahiro,sorry got you mixed up with someone else that was having trouble with efie,disregard what I said about the offset voltage.
02-21-2008 07:30 PM
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tanahiro Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Something is definetly wired wrong!!!
i made a smack's booster, but what is a venturi?
02-22-2008 06:56 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Something is definetly wired wrong!!!
See this article for a basic understanding of a venturi. Then look at this article, and go down to the section titled "Basics" for a diagram that shows a venturi in a carburetor. You have to look real close as the text is very small, but the venturi is marked.

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02-22-2008 12:57 PM
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dwbow1 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Something is definetly wired wrong!!!
tanahiro Wrote:i made a smack's booster, but what is a venturi?

What is a smacks booster? if you read mikes write up you know what a venturi is,If you still dont have a good idea of what a venturi is let me know and I will try to email you a picture,you can also see one on my website.
02-22-2008 08:18 PM
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tanahiro Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Something is definetly wired wrong!!!
thanks for the info. check this site for the smacks booster
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Smack.pdf

i will check yours now.
02-23-2008 11:46 AM
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