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System Life, Wet Cell vs. Dry Cell
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M98Ranger Offline
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Post: #1
System Life, Wet Cell vs. Dry Cell
Howdy everyone! I am going to be designing a hydroxy generating system for my design class at my University and was wondering if I could get your input on system life length for wet cells versus dry.

My question is very general so I am just looking for ballpark experience type answers.

If I were to run a wet cell bubbler and KOH.....2 or 3 litres/minute and say 70 Celsius.

Approximately how long before production tapers off to the point where I would have to replace a major component, (ie an electrode...assuming everything is made out of 316L Stainless Steel).

Same question, but for a dry cell setup (with a gap between plates of say .06").
12-26-2008 07:03 PM
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abe Offline
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Post: #2
RE: System Life, Wet Cell vs. Dry Cell
M98Ranger Wrote:Howdy everyone! I am going to be designing a hydroxy generating system for my design class at my University and was wondering if I could get your input on system life length for wet cells versus dry.

My question is very general so I am just looking for ballpark experience type answers.

If I were to run a wet cell bubbler and KOH.....2 or 3 litres/minute and say 70 Celsius.

Approximately how long before production tapers off to the point where I would have to replace a major component, (ie an electrode...assuming everything is made out of 316L Stainless Steel).

Same question, but for a dry cell setup (with a gap between plates of say .06").

A more interesting question would be,the derfence between 316l ss and 304 ss the production and life span
12-26-2008 07:29 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #3
RE: System Life, Wet Cell vs. Dry Cell
M98Ranger Wrote:Howdy everyone! I am going to be designing a hydroxy generating system for my design class at my University and was wondering if I could get your input on system life length for wet cells versus dry.

My question is very general so I am just looking for ballpark experience type answers.

If I were to run a wet cell bubbler and KOH.....2 or 3 litres/minute and say 70 Celsius.

Approximately how long before production tapers off to the point where I would have to replace a major component, (ie an electrode...assuming everything is made out of 316L Stainless Steel).

Same question, but for a dry cell setup (with a gap between plates of say .06").

Alas, poor Yorick, you think too much! If we could consistently produce 2/3 lpm HHO and further convert same into an mpg gain we might be concerned with esoterica like system life, i.e. wet cell vs. dry cell. We're not there yet. Sorry if we act like we're there; but there's a way to go before we could even consider your hypothesis, alpha error, beta error, statistical significance of data, etc. You won't find the data you're looking for here even though this board is the alpha and omega of HHO. Someday, maybe.
12-26-2008 07:39 PM
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M98Ranger Offline
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Post: #4
RE: System Life, Wet Cell vs. Dry Cell
abe Wrote:A more interesting question would be,the derfence between 316l ss and 304 ss the production and life span

Abe, I am not sure if I understand your response, but (if you are asking a serious question) the difference between 316L and 304 stainless steel is in the composition. In general 300 series have up to about .25% carbon, from about 16-26% Chromium and Nickel content from 6 - 25%. Series 304 is known to have a relatively high resistance to pitting during welding and a high stability during welding in general. Series 316 are known for their superior resistance to chemical corrosion and high-temperature corrosion in particular. Did I answer your question?
12-26-2008 08:03 PM
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M98Ranger Offline
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Post: #5
RE: System Life, Wet Cell vs. Dry Cell
thomasbala Wrote:Alas, poor Yorick, you think too much! If we could consistently produce 2/3 lpm HHO and further convert same into an mpg gain we might be concerned with esoterica like system life, i.e. wet cell vs. dry cell. We're not there yet. Sorry if we act like we're there; but there's a way to go before we could even consider your hypothesis, alpha error, beta error, statistical significance of data, etc. You won't find the data you're looking for here even though this board is the alpha and omega of HHO. Someday, maybe.

Yorick must be the name of some guy in a famous book I never read. Anyhooo...
It seems to me that there are quite a few claimse of productions in excess of 2 litres a minute. Is that just a bunch of bologna? Or what? I am not looking for "system life" (if you have data on system life that would be great, but...). All I am interested in is something like......"Well I can run my XXX system for 6 months before my cells corroded through..."...Thanks for trying to help me out thomasbala. Just out of curiosity what sort of production is typical for an optimized system (average)? Thanks for your time everyone.
12-26-2008 08:09 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #6
RE: System Life, Wet Cell vs. Dry Cell
M98Ranger Wrote:
thomasbala Wrote:Alas, poor Yorick, you think too much! If we could consistently produce 2/3 lpm HHO and further convert same into an mpg gain we might be concerned with esoterica like system life, i.e. wet cell vs. dry cell. We're not there yet. Sorry if we act like we're there; but there's a way to go before we could even consider your hypothesis, alpha error, beta error, statistical significance of data, etc. You won't find the data you're looking for here even though this board is the alpha and omega of HHO. Someday, maybe.

Yorick must be the name of some guy in a famous book I never read. Anyhooo...
It seems to me that there are quite a few claimse of productions in excess of 2 litres a minute. Is that just a bunch of bologna? Or what? I am not looking for "system life" (if you have data on system life that would be great, but...). All I am interested in is something like......"Well I can run my XXX system for 6 months before my cells corroded through..."...Thanks for trying to help me out thomasbala. Just out of curiosity what sort of production is typical for an optimized system (average)? Thanks for your time everyone.
I find your terminology hilarious: "an optimized system" conjures up thoughts of the new "Mac" vs. the new "HP Pavilion F560US" with an 80 gig hard drive. No one has an optimized system; if they did they wouldn't know it. HHO technology has changed so fast in the last 8 months it's futile to track the data. We've gone from wet cells, to brick-in-a-bath to wrapped bricks in a bath to dry cells. I'll bet the average experimenter has a Smithsonian collection of various electrolysis devices in his garage, for none of which there was any useful data collected. Why? same reason a kid doesn't ride his tricycle again once he knows how to ride a 2 wheeler. Perhaps you have the idea that HHO devices are like Fords, Chevies, Nissans, etc. such that you hear:
"you'll get 200,000 miles out of that Toyota if you treat it right." A standardized HHO device is a long way off. I doubt that anyone on this board has been using the same system for 6 months.

Production of 2 to 3 LPM is not achieved without cost. That cost is amperage, heat, alternator drag, etc. Ordinarily that "cost" is reduced by using multiple cells as opposed to a bigger cell. What works for a 1.9 liter Fiat won't work for a 4.6 liter Ford. You also have to ask 2-3 LPM of what? There are some still using baking soda and they will get tremendous production, but, of what. They think it's HHO; they don't know it's H2, CO2 and CO.

Even if you could collect data such as you describe: " All I am interested in is something like......"Well I can run my XXX system for 6 months before my cells corroded through...", what good would that info be to anyone using HHO. At this stage of the game I don't think anyone is interested in durability. Sounds like you want to learn how to be a sportscaster for a baseball game without first learning how the game is played. Good luck in your data collection.
12-27-2008 11:48 AM
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cmac Offline
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Post: #7
RE: System Life, Wet Cell vs. Dry Cell
Too funny,
Happy New Year!
12-27-2008 01:14 PM
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RDKamikaze Offline
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Post: #8
RE: System Life, Wet Cell vs. Dry Cell
Hahaha, I thought of computers when you said optimized system as well!

Well, I don't think any of us have a dead-set lifespan time on a generator because we all spend too much time ripping them apart over and over again by tweaking this little thing or that over there. Well, at least I know that's MY case. The longest I've left my generator as is without even changing the water (my wet cell) is one month. I didn't condition it, so there was the murky rust stuff all over the bottom, but the cell still produced its pre-measured .5A @ 9A!

My dry cell is too new to even claim anything, sorry. But I would highly recommend you go the dry cell method so that you can be a huge help in advancing our knowledge of this technology! Also, I think dry cells are a LOT easier to work on, hehe. Big Grin

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(This post was last modified: 12-27-2008 01:17 PM by RDKamikaze.)
12-27-2008 01:17 PM
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abe Offline
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Post: #9
RE: System Life, Wet Cell vs. Dry Cell
M98Ranger Wrote:
abe Wrote:A more interesting question would be,the derfence between 316l ss and 304 ss the production and life span

Abe, I am not sure if I understand your response, but (if you are asking a serious question) the difference between 316L and 304 stainless steel is in the composition. In general 300 series have up to about .25% carbon, from about 16-26% Chromium and Nickel content from 6 - 25%. Series 304 is known to have a relatively high resistance to pitting during welding and a high stability during welding in general. Series 316 are known for their superior resistance to chemical corrosion and high-temperature corrosion in particular. Did I answer your question?

Thanks for that info. the point I was makeing was cells will last differently depending on what you make it out of. 304 will not last as long as 316L .Some people are putting chemical in that will atack the SS. My first cell I was told to run salt and hydrogen peroxide,they didn't last the day.The cell I running now I am useing Robic..I have been running it on by car for 3 mounts now, it still looks good.I took it apart this afternoon to check it. One side of the plates where a little brown(wiped off easy) the other was fine. Mine are 316L Hope that helps. I'm kind of a newbee too. just got lucky.
12-27-2008 03:12 PM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #10
RE: System Life, Wet Cell vs. Dry Cell
Dry cells are the most efficient save for sealed series wet cells. Use good steel and you're not going to "burn through" one in six months; no one has yet. I'd guess a couple of years if I read your quest correctly. Dry cells are also the easiest to change up and play with. But mainly, the least heat buildup. A sealed series cell is also great and can be worked with, but due to the method of connecting one cell to the next, it's more of a difficult build and harder to modify.
12-27-2008 04:26 PM
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