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"The Cell"
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Roland Jacques Offline
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Post: #1
"The Cell"
Anybody remember "The Cell" that Bob Boyce promoted/designed? I came across some on Ebay for a very good price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...K:MEWAX:IT There is a video of it puting out 14 LPM. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvouKFAlhlk
Bob Boyce said it would be good for 8 LPM at 12 volts with no problems.

I dont see how 13, 6x6 plates can do that much output. Any thoughts?

I no they only use it with a 3 GPM high pressure pump to flow electrolye through it. I'm sure that evacuate the gas with a lot of turbulance could it be that simple?
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2010 04:48 AM by Roland Jacques.)
09-15-2010 04:47 AM
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staugur Offline
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Post: #2
RE: "The Cell"
(09-15-2010 04:47 AM)Roland Jacques Wrote:  Anybody remember "The Cell" that Bob Boyce promoted/designed? I came across some on Ebay for a very good price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...K:MEWAX:IT There is a video of it puting out 14 LPM. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvouKFAlhlk
Bob Boyce said it would be good for 8 LPM at 12 volts with no problems.

I dont see how 13, 6x6 plates can do that much output. Any thoughts?

I no they only use it with a 3 GPM high pressure pump to flow electrolye through it. I'm sure that evacuate the gas with a lot of turbulance could it be that simple?

The only simple thing about "the cell" is how simple it is to con someone.It was originally touted as being able to put out 4-6lpm at 25 amps which,were it true,would have been fantastic.Unfortunately,Mr Pochen apparently fitted shunts of the wrong value and the 4lpm output was obtained at 48 amps not the 25 as claimed.No one will persuade me Mr Boyce was not party to this deception. Just another example of "if it sounds too good to be true,it probable is" Hmm
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2010 08:34 AM by mike.)
09-15-2010 06:15 AM
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BobBoyce Offline
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Post: #3
RE: "The Cell"
I partially agree with staugur, don't waste your money. The 4-6 LPM rating was for 12V @ 50A or 24V @ 25A with the original design, not for those defective units that he made later. The plastic he used in those cells disintegrates when in contact with electrolyte, so they will not last. I have one of the trucker units that has leaks in both cell units just from sitting with electrolyte in it, not even being used anymore. I don't dare clean it up, as it is being kept for evidence if needed.

The shunt issue I was not involved with, I left before he started doing that. He did not change the shunts, he recalibrated the controller in 2 ways to give false readings. The first was to set the controller to require 60 mV per 100A instead of the 50 mV per 100A that the shunt was calibrated for. The second was to set the controller to display 80% of the interpreted value. The end result was 60mV displayed 80A. So add those two together and the actual average current drawn was 40% higher than that displayed. The hysterisis of the display acually allowed the trucker units to draw up to nearly 200 amps of power during the long on times, while displaying whatever the setpoint current was set to. It would just stay off long enough to average the current. This caused alternators to be burned out from the long extreme load on intervals. I also have two controllers for evidence, the one for the trucker unit that has that bogus programming that reads false power consumption figures and eats alternators. And one with my version of programming that reads power correctly and does not destroy alternators.

Bob Boyce
(09-15-2010 06:15 AM)staugur Wrote:  
(09-15-2010 04:47 AM)Roland Jacques Wrote:  Anybody remember "The Cell" that Bob Boyce promoted/designed? I came across some on Ebay for a very good price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...K:MEWAX:IT There is a video of it puting out 14 LPM. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvouKFAlhlk
Bob Boyce said it would be good for 8 LPM at 12 volts with no problems.

I dont see how 13, 6x6 plates can do that much output. Any thoughts?

I no they only use it with a 3 GPM high pressure pump to flow electrolye through it. I'm sure that evacuate the gas with a lot of turbulance could it be that simple?



The only simple thing about "the cell" is how simple it is to con someone.It was originally touted as being able to put out 4-6lpm at 25 amps which,were it true,would have been fantastic.Unfortunately,Mr Pochen apparently fitted shunts of the wrong value and the 4lpm output was obtained at 48 amps not the 25 as claimed.No one will persuade me Mr Boyce was not party to this deception. Just another example of "if it sounds too good to be true,it probable is" Hmm
09-15-2010 07:05 AM
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Roland Jacques Offline
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Post: #4
RE: "The Cell"
Man I'm bummed. I probably should have posted this before i purchased 2 of them. I gather they will still put out 4 LPM @ 40-50 amps (which is good IMO). But if the plastic wont hold up i guess it a mute point. How low do they last? Is there a electrolyte that wont break down the plastic?

Thanks for the explanation.


PS, They recommend a 3GPM 60 PSI pump, seems like overkill on the pump size.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2010 03:36 PM by Roland Jacques.)
09-15-2010 03:28 PM
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staugur Offline
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Post: #5
RE: "The Cell"
(09-15-2010 03:28 PM)Roland Jacques Wrote:  Man I'm bummed. I probably should have posted this before i purchased 2 of them. I gather they will still put out 4 LPM @ 40-50 amps (which is good IMO). But if the plastic wont hold up i guess it a mute point. How low do they last? Is there a electrolyte that wont break down the plastic?

Thanks for the explanation.


PS, They recommend a 3GPM 60 PSI pump, seems like overkill on the pump size.

Well you know what they say: measure three times and cut once. If you bought the version with the foam plate seperators it's going to break down whatever electrolyte you use.The pump is specific to the application, especially the valve material.If I were you I'd put them straight back on the Bay and buy something that will last a few years,
09-15-2010 06:25 PM
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jbalat Offline
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Post: #6
RE: "The Cell"
At that price the guy must be selling them by the truck load whether they work or not.. Its going to cost me more than that just for my plates in my new cell...

Bob good to see you are still around.. How is your health these days ?

Do you have anything new for us, its been pretty quiet around here, looking forward to another good real time action adventure novel if you are up for it Smile
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2010 03:26 AM by jbalat.)
09-16-2010 03:19 AM
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Roland Jacques Offline
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Post: #7
RE: "The Cell"
(09-15-2010 06:25 PM)staugur Wrote:  
(09-15-2010 03:28 PM)Roland Jacques Wrote:  Man I'm bummed. I probably should have posted this before i purchased 2 of them. I gather they will still put out 4 LPM @ 40-50 amps (which is good IMO). But if the plastic wont hold up i guess it a mute point. How low do they last? Is there a electrolyte that wont break down the plastic?

Thanks for the explanation.


PS, They recommend a 3GPM 60 PSI pump, seems like overkill on the pump size.

Well you know what they say: measure three times and cut once. If you bought the version with the foam plate seperators it's going to break down whatever electrolyte you use.The pump is specific to the application, especially the valve material.If I were you I'd put them straight back on the Bay and buy something that will last a few years,
Bob said they where good in that video that was good enough for me i have immense respect for him. But i do understand things happen and i took a chance.
I do have a good cell but I'm always looking for ways to improve things.
When i purchased them i assumed they would unbolt and they would just come apart. I really was interested in seeing the guts because of the clams... I was disappointed to find out it was glued.
It looks like i will just be putting 1 cell on the table saw and cutting the end plate off and see what separates the plates. Then i will have some idea of what i have. I would have to be straight if i was to sell them. i may have just bought some expenses plates.

Thanks for the info guys
09-16-2010 03:04 PM
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BobBoyce Offline
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Post: #8
RE: "The Cell"
Sorry to hear that you got ripped off Roland. I don't know what relationship the seller has or had with Potchen but it looks like he is just trying to unload them before they become even more worthless.

Alice Liu (username Fang on this forum) hooked up with Potchen in an attempt to bring his cells to china. Of course this was after the big falling out between me and Potchen, after I blew the whistle on his frauds. She now says that his cells were a massive failure, and that she lost a lot of money on that deal. She paid to fly him and his wife to china and back. She still does not like me after I cancelled her contract for non-performance, so I guess she thought she would "get even" with me by teaming up with Potchen. Well he used her like he uses everyone that dares to trust him. I actually do feel some pity for her, she met a crook that was able to beat her at her own game. She tried to warn me about him and I ignored her. She should have followed her own advice. My only real problem with her was her attempt to go cheap on critical portions of my design, which caused her to fail in her attempt to build workable prototypes of my ruggedized marine units. Typical china type quality just does not bode well with more complex cell designs.

Sorry to get off track, it just ticks me off when I see innocent people like you become victims of Potchens crappy cells. The plates may not be so good to use, as there was a huge batch of those made around the time that I left that turned out to have really poor quality chinese stainless steel, and they rusted really badly. They just kept putting out rust when the guys were trying to cleanse them. I had since found out that even earlier ones that were made towards the end of while I was there, back when the stainless steel was good - that there was a large number of those cells used in the trucker units that just did not meet the gas production efficiency specs of that design. I wanted to know why, so over the past year or so I took many of those cells to the bandsaw. Upon cutting all of them open, I found out that Potchen actually had used the reject plates that I had rejected due to inadequate sanding quality, and his plate spacing from cell to cell was absolutely HORRIBLE. The edge alignment was ok, but there were plates that were warped so badly facing each other that some plates were touching in the center, shorting out cells, while adjoining cells were gapped larger. So much for the quality control that I had been trying to maintain while I was there! Hey, I hear that if you flush them out really well and fill the top and bottom with epoxy, they do make some decent paperweights or bookends. I would never run one of his cells in any car that I own. In fact, I use a complete B3 system in my Prius hybrid, set up so that the variable current regulator shuts the B3 off when the engine shuts off.

On a lighter note, there is now a manufacturer that is making replacement cell units for the original trucker box units that were built by Potchen. I personally swapped out the electropolished Potchen cells for some of these new ones. They are being built to my original flow through cell specifications, the ones used in my original prototype (notorized January 2008 drawings are on file) that I took to Potchen to get mass manufactured many months later. These replacements are working GREAT, no added electronics are needed to lean out the engines. In fact, I removed the boards that Potchen had supplied to modify sensor signals, and they are running the big rigs with the stock tuning. As I have stated all along, it's all about the hydroxy gas quality at high cell efficiency to reduce alternator drag, not just brute force gas quantity.

Of course, we applied plates over the text "THE CELL" that is machined into the outer metal box, and put more appropriate brand names in place of it. We certainly do not want to advertise for Potchen on the side of the big rigs, especially with the poor quality of gas that his units make! I look at his new systems that he is so proud of, the ones with the radiators and fans for cooling, and wonder when he will ever pull his head out of his arse. Who in their right mind builds a supposedly commercial quality system that runs so hot that it requires an active cooling system? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Bob Boyce
09-22-2010 11:27 AM
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jbalat Offline
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Post: #9
RE: "The Cell"
(09-22-2010 11:27 AM)BobBoyce Wrote:  no added electronics are needed to lean out the engines. In fact, I removed the boards that Potchen had supplied to modify sensor signals, and they are running the big rigs with the stock tuning. As I have stated all along, it's all about the hydroxy gas quality at high cell efficiency to reduce alternator drag, not just brute force gas quantity.

Bob are you saying that this approach will also work in any modern day car ?
09-25-2010 01:25 AM
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Roland Jacques Offline
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Post: #10
RE: "The Cell"
On the subject of gas quality, I would like some opinions as what makes the bigger differences in HHO qualities.

Ortho
Para
monatomic
ionized

I'm interested in weather folks believe that Ionic HHO plays a big factor in HHO quality.
I hear that this may be i big factor in gas differences. Would a Ionic O2 react with air and make a Nitrous Hydroxide or Nitrous Oxide?
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2010 02:12 PM by Roland Jacques.)
09-25-2010 02:11 PM
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