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Toyota AFR update info requested
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Toyota AFR update info requested
If that ZFF EFIE works for you, make sure you let us know.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-16-2008 02:39 PM
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AIR_WIZZ Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Toyota AFR update info requested
The units in the pic. A $38 but for $18, Home Depot sells the white GE Water Filter housings very similar to mine with only exception being they do not have the valve structure seen on mine. This is actually better because it reduces the height by a few inches. When a design is settled on, these will be the way to go. I recently saw a 1 gallon version (CLEAR) with out the valve but has a larger circumference for about $50 at HD also. I am VERY interested in this unit to make a unit with several neutral plates to handle 110 rectified or maybe stepped down 24V as A?C Transformers are dime a dozen. My intention here is to make a nice portable that will run on house voltage (even up to 240v)
PS, take note of the brackets if you can, they come with it as well as fittings, a filter wrench and the monster green cables you see and they even have Gucci little timed alarms to tell you it's time to change the filter.

Between you, I didn't think anything was wrong really, just wishing I had the time to catch up on the member's personalities so I could understand it. I love forums because of the debates they create. Friendly, of course. Debates are the root to the solutions we seek.
"Necessity is the mother of invention" and inventions don't come easily. Mother Nature has some very complex tricks ad anyone who thinks they got it figured out completely is short sighted to say the least.
And Cochi, I certainly am not putting you down in any way! Your misunderstood comment merely pointed out that you know Mr Mountain to some degree and I envy that. I imagine it will come to me in time. I am looking forward to brainstorming with you all.

The Bung: For $3, 8% is great. No improvements seen without it.
Why it works.
I know nothing of the level of YOUR knowledge but I'll make a general explanation since anyone that happens along this page may learn from it.
The sensor detects the "DIFFERENCE" between ambient and exhaust O2 levels (NOT FUEL or any thing else in the stream!!!). A rich mixture yields lower O2 levels as more fuel burns more oxygen. By pulling the O2 sensor out of the direct stream of exhaust, it is less influenced by the flow and less O2 is seen. HHO causes a more complete burn: however, contains its own O2. This extra O2 is seen by the O2 sensor and the ECU sees that as a lean mixture and fattens the mixture to compensate.
Dammit!
The bung is actually in your local auto parts store as an 18mm spark plug anti-fouler. This reversible mod is way too easy to NOT try but it is not switch able. Meaning, I cannot turn it off. I must un install it. I am a fat typical American with a remote control fetish like all other Americans and I want a damsel to bring me beer when I bellow and I want to hit a switch to turn of the HHO.

My mileage:
When I got the truck, the sticker said 28MPG Highway.
The best I ever did empty was 25 and change with the A/C on and 65MPH average on highway plus some city driving but mostly I was driving like a little b!tch cuz it was new.
Now, I'm 75MPH with the stereo blasting to Tool & Ozzy and double the payload.
OK, Maybe 80!
20 is my real world average. I'm just now starting to notice which stations I fill up at and the corn content.
I love corn! With butter! My dog too!
There is nothing wrong with corn
BUT!
WTF is wrong with water AMERICA!?!?
Oh that's right, Oil shortages and dependencies, bla, bla, bla and the fact that water cannot be $$$$$$ like corn!!!!!!!!!!! Where is Pantone when you need him? HMMM?
Wanna get pissed? Check out CNG. Rotting bologna and banana peels from millions of Americans produce enough Methane to effect the GLOBE! Waste management has a significant hold on it as 80% oft the CNG stations are for Government GARBAGE TRUCKS only, yet you can Bio fuel your rig for peanuts with this stuff.
dubadubaduba.fueleconomy.gov, do the research!

Back to my mileage: a V6 Buick from the eighties gets 25+ MPG with a carb and distributor. Refer back to my opinions of the conspiracy.
Why does your 04 get better mileage than my 07, VVT-i with 2 bells and a whistle?
That is the $64,000 question, huh?

2007 Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Transmission
Experimenting with: 4 cell HHO gen. w/ 2.5 gallon capacity.
Veterran Mech/Tech/Supervisor and Florida HVAC/R Contractor
07-16-2008 04:14 PM
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AIR_WIZZ Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Toyota AFR update info requested
To start back on the original point of AFR's in our Toyota's...
My best understanding of the sensor is that THIS Wide Band A/F sensor works with a 3.29 volt +/- signal but that is NOT what makes it work. The sensor actual works with current and the polarity changes with stoich'. Any one with a basic underastanding in electronics should agree that a simple pot or resister wont work... at least, not in both directions. Clearly it's do-able and it has been done. All you need is money!
I don't have a problem buying what appears to be a beautiful module from URD with a warranty and a reputation for high quality but I need to know it's the answer to my problems!
Remember when cell phones first came out and cost $1000's. Pretty funny now, they're free. AFR BS'ers will no doubt come around as well.
HHO has hit a stride that will only increase and the supply and demand stresses are at play. I firmly believe our fascist corporate government has had a hand in suppressing this technology's progression; However 2 things have changed recently (relatively speaking)
1: The pressure from the paying public to continue financing the industry has finally boiled over from gas prices.
2: The Internet has become a great tool with incredulous speeds and powers. What it said today, is read by many and they cannot take our thoughts. Once the seed has been planted, rednecks and backyard inventors across the world start working toward divorce as they search for the answers with wanton disregard for pretty much anything.
"MUST MAKE HHO! uuuuhhhhh! MUST MAKE HHO, UUUHHHH!
In the 70's and 80's, Pantone, Meyers and the many other great minds that will be the fathers of this technology were severely hindered with opposition.
That $hit don't fly today does it? We are here doing it? No one is killing us or incarcerating us. Because the internet has become a tool that the government cannot control or oppress.

Your ideas must be posted.

2007 Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Transmission
Experimenting with: 4 cell HHO gen. w/ 2.5 gallon capacity.
Veterran Mech/Tech/Supervisor and Florida HVAC/R Contractor
07-16-2008 05:35 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Toyota AFR update info requested
Air, what about these?

[Image: clearfilterhousing.jpg]

hydrogengarage.com

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
07-16-2008 05:43 PM
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AIR_WIZZ Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Toyota AFR update info requested
They look strangely similar to units sold at Lowes from Whirlpirl. They seem just fine. The GE units claim 125 degrees and 100 PSI rated. These vessels are fine subjects for builders everywhere to experiment and make their own backyard units.

2007 Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Transmission
Experimenting with: 4 cell HHO gen. w/ 2.5 gallon capacity.
Veterran Mech/Tech/Supervisor and Florida HVAC/R Contractor
07-16-2008 05:57 PM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Toyota AFR update info requested
I have the Lowe's units just like that in white...you need to look under the cap and consider a bit the difficulty in curved, uneven, narrow spaces for putting bolts through and think out a plan. I put bolts thru the sides down low under the water, but shelved it when my brick experiment didn't work. May put a modified Smack brick in it later or sell it now that I've discovered series units. The taper is another limitation comparing to PVC pipes.
07-16-2008 06:23 PM
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AIR_WIZZ Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Toyota AFR update info requested
I'm gonna treat this thread like it were mine and throw several thoughts, links and techniques out there.
Link to EBAY item that is using same Housing as I am.

Link to EBAY item that is using the $18 housing.

Both of these housings are available at Home Depot ($38-$18).
The latter is shorter, does not have a bypass valve (not needed, or benefitial, for that matter) and it is white, which means you can't see all the bubbles...Get over it!

2007 Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Transmission
Experimenting with: 4 cell HHO gen. w/ 2.5 gallon capacity.
Veterran Mech/Tech/Supervisor and Florida HVAC/R Contractor
07-17-2008 02:16 PM
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AIR_WIZZ Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Toyota AFR update info requested
My Victim!


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2007 Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Transmission
Experimenting with: 4 cell HHO gen. w/ 2.5 gallon capacity.
Veterran Mech/Tech/Supervisor and Florida HVAC/R Contractor
07-17-2008 02:34 PM
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AIR_WIZZ Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Toyota AFR update info requested
My Engine compartment.


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2007 Toyota Tacoma, 4 cyl. Manual Transmission
Experimenting with: 4 cell HHO gen. w/ 2.5 gallon capacity.
Veterran Mech/Tech/Supervisor and Florida HVAC/R Contractor
07-17-2008 03:21 PM
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ncmountainmadness Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Toyota AFR update info requested
Well, looks like you guys been steady discusing it in my absence,

Rick,

If I decide to build it I will surely pass on the results. For now, as WIZZ and I share near the same engine I am going to give his sensor extender (bung) a quick try. My components to better tune my MAF finally arrived so next day of tinkering will be to finalize all of that circuitry and see what sort of results I can atlest get from fine tuning the IAT/TS and MAF all at once. Maybe some gains can be gotten without the AFR part, though I have my doubts. But, I'll either prove or disprove it and pass on my efforts.

WIZZ,
thanks for the pics and info on the filter housings. As IVe already built a few lesser quality cells, not really sure if I am going to go the route of see through or not on the next one. Except for maybe the bubbler stage. MY next cell is planned to be of the true series design, with some form of PWM voltage supply. Right now it was sort of back to the drawing board on the sensor approach, as NO cell no matter how good is worth 2 cents if the ECM wont let it do its job. That is why at the moment I am doing the electronics work that I am persuing along with simple Water vapor injection and fuel preheating. I figure if I can get the sensor chain to work with these two simple proven methods then surely the HHO will just follow suit.

As for our 2 toyota's, my 04 was VVT and yes did also have an AFR. But I never tinkered with it. As with my wife's 04 Camry, same exact setup. Now go figure on this one. Her 2.4l gets 33-36 consistent, 165k miles and been that way since the day we bought it new. Must be in the gearing is all I can figure. I just didnt use the tacoma for what it was intended as I had another full size truck, so I sold it and got me this Vibe (matrix) that I use as a daily commuter as well as travel vehicle when we do so. As for the controls, etc between Toy's 1.8 and 2.4 there isnt much diff at all. Figured Id get back at all of this HHO stuff on the Vibe, but doing so systematically to avoid wasted effort where possible.

As for Forums and debates.....I do try to avoid what one might percieve as debates. We got enough problems in this old world as it is. Brainstorming is a better approach. I try my best not to criticize others efforts, but instead might offer suggestions but then only IF i can prove it with data. What I have found on places like this is, LOTS of claims, but in alot of cases,no proof,pictures,diagrams,etc to prove or disprove any of it, just talk. Hence, the term counter intelligence comes to mind and from there we all know of the possibilites of whats knosn as conspiracy. I Choose to dabble in this stuff because first it has alwasy intrigued me, 2nd is I know for a fact it works and has limitless possibilites. So when find time to actually dabble, I want it to count for something. Theres and old saying, $ talks and BS walks...well in this game its, facts/data/proven efforts talks and BS walks.

THis is in a way how COlchiro and I began....I was searching for factual answers, not BS and he DID present me with good solid links to factual data. And furthermore, passed on to me information from this forum when I was somewhere else. And in turn helped me make my time at dabbling valuable positive effort time. I still frequent the OUpower Forums, but this seems to be a more vaulable source for the sensor topic.

As for you, Your trying to pass on valuable, hands on info to me, that you have gained using a brand new vehicle, which most would consider totally insane.( I dont) This tells me your as well serious and passionate about the topic. Brainstorm away, and look fwd to it.

As for corn, give it to me on the cob or in a mason jar!

Oh well enough BS...time to do some more serious reading. Ive little valuabe time as it is on these forums. Home computer is so darn slow I rarely get on here from there. So often times days pass by between my posts as I shift work and do this during breaks at work.
07-18-2008 09:12 PM
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