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Vacuum Users POLL/INFO
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howiemandel Offline
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Post: #1
Vacuum Users POLL/INFO
Using vacuum to introduce engine to hho? If you are, I need to know


1) Where are you putting your gas hose to? (vacuum)
2) Are you using electronic mods, IE: 02/maps/map etc etc.
3) Are you using any other gas saving mods? IE: acetone,warmersetc.
4) Do you get Check Engine LIghts? If you do What did you do to offset that?
5) What are your gains per gallon, or Loss per gallons.
6) Any tips or tweaks used in this style of hho gen, that you found beneficial? (IE: air outlet valve etc)

Lets go guys, if your using Vacuum, post it up. Too simple. 5 questions.
09-01-2008 07:00 AM
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tonyc860 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Vacuum Users POLL/INFO
I have a 2005 f150 4.6l and this afternoon I switched my unit to 100% vacuum. My unit puts out 1.5-2lpm. I have been at this for about 6 months now and always injected at the airbox. Never saw a gain. Factory MPG is 16-17 typically.

When I connected, the vacuum was producing 4-5 times the bubbles. I hope it will pull the HHO off my plates at that rate also.

I have a bubbler but no check valve so when I turn it off the water gets sucked back into my unit. I am thinking of eliminating the bubbler but I am concerned about NAOH going in my engine.

I have the efie from fuel-saver but it is disconnected. Before I always got CEL's, and mileage dropped to 14-11mpg with hho in airbox.

My only question is when I rev the engine it wants to stall after it comes down, then it catches itself and idles well. How do I remedy that?

I'm crossing my fingers that I see a gain, my butt hurts from falling off the horse (lol)! I'll post results after some mileage.

Tony
2003 Volvo v70 2.5L turbo
2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L v6
2005 F150 4.6 ltr-No longer Thank God!Smile
11-02-2008 05:42 PM
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RDKamikaze Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Vacuum Users POLL/INFO
Holy vacuum activation, Batman! I'm here to save the day for once, yay! lol

Well here's my information on vacuum experience. I injected to intake manifold through the PCV line (spliced, check out my youtube vids for more info), and I didn't really get the CEL for it.

Mods: o2 extender. After a while I added a MAF adjuster, but still no CEL.

Changes: lol, too many! I changed cell design and construction many times, each successful build key word there, SUCCESSFUL) resulting in still no CEL after I reset (from the bad builds).

Current injection: Through the air intake. No more vacuum (huge vacuum at that), but the CEL doesn't go away after even just the o2 extender mod. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

Specs: Pulling 10A cold (tested engine running) and producing .5LPM still. I think it's time for me to sit down and analyze my problems, because smack is getting <1LPM off his design and I'm not???

Changes noted after switching injection: I noticed the car has more torque now that the air is going to thee air intake line (after MAF) and not the PCV line. Although when I was in higher RPMs the vacuum method seems to produce some good power, but it's all about fuel savings, right? My main reason for switching was I was tired of constantly changing my water catching reservoir because it sucked in a lot of bubbler water, which also sucked in water from the gen itself. I lovealways having to go back to the drawing board....

My Car:
2006 Toyota Solara 2.4L 4cyl.
-Aftermarket (JPP) header
-DNX exhaust
-Injen Short-Ram Intake (SRI)

Add yourself to the HHO member map!!
11-02-2008 09:35 PM
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Troy Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Vacuum Users POLL/INFO
RDKamikaze Wrote:Well here's my information on vacuum experience. I injected to intake manifold through the PCV line (spliced, check out my youtube vids for more info), and I didn't really get the CEL for it.


Changes noted after switching injection: I noticed the car has more torque now that the air is going to thee air intake line (after MAF) and not the PCV line. Although when I was in higher RPMs the vacuum method seems to produce some good power, but it's all about fuel savings, right? My main reason for switching was I was tired of constantly changing my water catching reservoir because it sucked in a lot of bubbler water, which also sucked in water from the gen itself. I lovealways having to go back to the drawing board....

Hey guys,
I just finished my gen and am hooked directly to vacuum via PCV T off and do have a bubbler in line. I had to place the check valve at the end of the hose from the Gen INSIDE the bubbler. Placing the check valve at the very TIP of the hose coming from the Gen into the bubbler (inside the jar) prevented any draw back of water up the hose and sooner recovery when the engine is revved because the Generator does not have to pump out the water that was partially sucked back up the hose before the check valve stops its progress.

Next step is to add a needler valve (also called a bubbler valve) to the top of my generator to allow 'some' air into the system to create better flow due to the vacuum. Also, I am greatly concerned about the water boiling point due to vacuum.

Has anyone experimented with the Water4Gas design of using 2 hoses for input from the Gen? They state that one hose goes to manifold vacuum for higher HHO input during idle (because vacuum diminishes at higher RPM) whereas the other hose to the standard air intake will give a better HHO input at higher RPM's (because higher input to air intake at higher RPM). It makes sense to me I was just curious if the theory is sound.
11-03-2008 04:16 AM
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RDKamikaze Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Vacuum Users POLL/INFO
Welcome to the forum, Troy! I sure hope you didn't make a W4G gen or use baking soda as electrolyte, because then I would have to tell you to research Tongue.

Anyway, I've never heard someone actually put the check valve inside of the bubbler itself, it's an interesting idea. I would think that possibly could be bad depending on the type of check valve you have, just because some are slow to react to vacuums. So if that were the case, you would suck up a little water before it actually stopped the water flow, no biggie.

I too m interested to see what people say about the split connection with W4G plans. Not the cell itself, because I hate them. If I recall there were a couple people who have tried it but I haven't heard any followup from them.

My Car:
2006 Toyota Solara 2.4L 4cyl.
-Aftermarket (JPP) header
-DNX exhaust
-Injen Short-Ram Intake (SRI)

Add yourself to the HHO member map!!
11-03-2008 08:58 AM
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cjpeaceful Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Vacuum Users POLL/INFO
I've answered the questions based on past experience (still testing WVI only).

Quote:1) Where are you putting your gas hose to? (vacuum)

"Tee" in the PCV line. A ball valve was also intalled in between the "tee" and the bubbler. This allowed greater control over gas flow. I used it as a metering gauge to see if the amount of HHO being drawn into the engine matter much - it didn't. But, then again, the maximum amount of hydroxy I could produce was about 600 mlpm (small plate generator not my dry cells).

Oh, and this setup was on a 2000 Ford Mustang 3.8L (pretty much stock) 99,000 miles.

Quote:2) Are you using electronic mods, IE: 02/maps/map etc etc.

Nope.

Quote:3) Are you using any other gas saving mods? IE: acetone,warmersetc.

Nope.

Quote:4) Do you get Check Engine LIghts? If you do What did you do to offset that?

Nope.

Quote:5) What are your gains per gallon, or Loss per gallons.

Constant baseline of 22.5 mpg (more highway miles than city) before HHO. With this setup I was seeing no less than 26.5 mpg.

Quote:6) Any tips or tweaks used in this style of hho gen, that you found beneficial? (IE: air outlet valve etc)

Nothing new. Most tips I believe are what everyone else is using or using currently.
11-03-2008 02:19 PM
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tonyc860 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Vacuum Users POLL/INFO
Just wanted to say thanks to all the vacuum believers and you can add me to the list. In 6 months of playing with the hho idea I have never had a gain and today I gained 3mpg, yippie!!!!

For those of you that are saying 3mpg, that's it, it is a milestone for me. I have a unit that produces 1.5-2lpm and efie and never got anything through the airbox. I believe I could have gotten more today but I used a vinyl hose in the back of my throttle body and the high vacuum collapsed the hose and I believe choked the flow of hho. So I went to Napa and bought a piece of fuel line and think that I will see more.

So here are the stats:

Factory 16mpg
HHO in vacuum at throttle body 3mpg gain (20%, i'll take it all day)
No efie running, CEL came on but I think it is because of my collapsed hose issue. I went to autozone and checked the code and it is an idle speed error code. Hopefully, the new hose will cure that.

I run liquid drain cleaner from Home depot or roebic lye from lowes (whichever) as an electrolyte as strong as possible. I read that 28% by volume will maximize hho production. My unit is at 30 amps at full running temp. My next step is to get a pwm with a current limiter to cap the amperage, then I can get closer to 28% electrolyte.

As far as the smack idea, mine is similar but larger, I use door push plates, 14 total, 7 in each cell (4"x16") and the two cells are separated by a plastic divider. I built a box with grooves to isolate 3 of 4 edges on each plate and the plates are +NNNNN-. There are no screws holding them together because the grooves maintain spacing. The other nice thing is if you want to change your configuration you just slide the plates around and you are done. Pos and neg bolts are tapped into the respective groove. The smacks heater has that flaw. By isolating your edges, your amperage drops tremendously, allowing you to add more electrolyte therefore producing more hho.

Fortunately, i have a v8 truck and have the space in front of the radiator to house this box, I would think if you have a 4cyl or 6 you could cut the plates and it would be proportional to your vehicle. I think the main thing is covering the edges to reduce current leakage.

Tony
2003 Volvo v70 2.5L turbo
2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L v6
2005 F150 4.6 ltr-No longer Thank God!Smile
11-03-2008 03:23 PM
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dogman Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Vacuum Users POLL/INFO
Tony, what did you build your box out of and if it was in sections, how did you seal the edges?

Doug
2003 Buick Lesabre Limited
3.8L V6
Minot, ND
11-03-2008 04:25 PM
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tonyc860 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Vacuum Users POLL/INFO
dogman Wrote:Tony, what did you build your box out of and if it was in sections, how did you seal the edges?

I am currently using some abs flat stock which is about 3/8. I am in the process of building a new box out of 3/4 pvc (azek trim boards).
I think the azek would be easier to fasten together, it comes in different sizes and is readily available at a lumber yard. Now, typically pvc has a lower heat resistance to abs but heat is no longer an issue because i am isolated on 3 sides. The water gets to 110-125 degrees max.

I used a buytl tape on the seams and predrilled and screwed the edges together. Then I coat it with a 2 part plastic epoxy (loctite).

I figure the lengths of the sides (left & right & bottom) and cut my grooves on my table saw moving the fence 3/16 each pass. Then I cut the left, right and bottom to length. By waiting to cut these down to length it insures that all the grooves will line up perfectly.

I bolt 2 pieces of 3/4 x 3/4 aluminum angle to the long side of the tops edges and tap my holes for my cover and used the stainless screws (#6) that came with all of the switchplates that I bought in the past. Put butyl tap around the top edge and saran wrap over (so you can get it off easily).

It is a little work but well worth it. Your fingers get tired of turning nuts and bolts when you want to change your configuration.

Good luck!

The box works great for me, I may invest in a plastic welder from harbor freight. For what we need it for a basic model will do.

Tony
2003 Volvo v70 2.5L turbo
2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L v6
2005 F150 4.6 ltr-No longer Thank God!Smile
11-03-2008 09:15 PM
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tonyc860 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Vacuum Users POLL/INFO
tonyc860 Wrote:
dogman Wrote:Tony, what did you build your box out of and if it was in sections, how did you seal the edges?

I am currently using some abs flat stock which is about 3/8. I am in the process of building a new box out of 3/4 pvc (azek trim boards).
I think the azek would be easier to fasten together, it comes in different sizes and is readily available at a lumber yard. Now, typically pvc has a lower heat resistance to abs but heat is no longer an issue because i am isolated on 3 sides. The water gets to 110-125 degrees max.

I used a buytl tape on the seams and predrilled and screwed the edges together. Then I coat it with a 2 part plastic epoxy (loctite).

I figure the lengths of the sides (left & right & bottom) and cut my grooves on my table saw moving the fence 3/16 each pass. Then I cut the left, right and bottom to length. By waiting to cut these down to length it insures that all the grooves will line up perfectly.

I bolt 2 pieces of 3/4 x 3/4 aluminum angle to the long side of the tops edges and tap my holes for my cover and used the stainless screws (#6) that came with all of the switchplates that I bought in the past. Put butyl tap around the top edge and saran wrap over (so you can get it off easily).

It is a little work but well worth it. Your fingers get tired of turning nuts and bolts when you want to change your configuration.

Good luck!

The box works great for me, I may invest in a plastic welder from harbor freight. For what we need it for a basic model will do.

Sorry about the mixup at the end, it's late....

Tony
2003 Volvo v70 2.5L turbo
2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L v6
2005 F150 4.6 ltr-No longer Thank God!Smile
11-03-2008 09:19 PM
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