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W4G Electrolizer Install Not Yielding Results
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cpjp Offline
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Post: #1
W4G Electrolizer Install Not Yielding Results
I have a W4G electrolizer installation in a 1990, 2.2L Honda Accord LX:

Setup (based on W4G instructions):

- wide mouth canning jar
- 3/8" plexi core
- 316L wire, 0.032 diameter, ~1/4" spacing, ? turns
- no MAP enhancer (is it a must??)
- Baking Soda 1/2 tsp, distilled water, draws ?? amps
- normal 15 AMP fuse to switch on dash
- one way check valve
- EFIE "maximized" to point where any further turning of the screw causes performance issues
- HHO production ~?? L/min (how exactly is that even measured?)
- My vacuum is achieved via a T into an intake manifold hose (my mechanic friend hooked it up for me)

In two tanks I've seen no measurable increase in fuel economy. I've purchase online books, DVDs, getting the 316L wire proved to be very expensive to get shipped to Canada. I'm slowly becmoning the laughing stock of all my social circles who think HHO is a joke.

What am I missing? Is it because I don't have the MAP enhancer? Maybe I have the EFIE wires connected to the wrong O2 sensor wires??
Any help that could be provided would be invaluable. I'll provide the most detailed answers, photos - anything. Am new to this forum. My apologies if this is an annoying "newbie" question.
07-13-2009 10:26 AM
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ptours99 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: W4G Electrolizer Install Not Yielding Results
(07-13-2009 10:26 AM)cpjp Wrote:  I have a W4G electrolizer installation in a 1990, 2.2L Honda Accord LX:

Setup (based on W4G instructions):

- wide mouth canning jar
- 3/8" plexi core
- 316L wire, 0.032 diameter, ~1/4" spacing, ? turns
- no MAP enhancer (is it a must??)
- Baking Soda 1/2 tsp, distilled water, draws ?? amps
- normal 15 AMP fuse to switch on dash
- one way check valve
- EFIE "maximized" to point where any further turning of the screw causes performance issues
- HHO production ~?? L/min (how exactly is that even measured?)
- My vacuum is achieved via a T into an intake manifold hose (my mechanic friend hooked it up for me)

In two tanks I've seen no measurable increase in fuel economy. I've purchase online books, DVDs, getting the 316L wire proved to be very expensive to get shipped to Canada. I'm slowly becmoning the laughing stock of all my social circles who think HHO is a joke.

What am I missing? Is it because I don't have the MAP enhancer? Maybe I have the EFIE wires connected to the wrong O2 sensor wires??
Any help that could be provided would be invaluable. I'll provide the most detailed answers, photos - anything. Am new to this forum. My apologies if this is an annoying "newbie" question.
well let me be the first to tell you that w4g is no good besides a potential shrapnal bomb under your hood.when you do some research on this subject you'll find out that you need some area to work with like sq.in area.go to smackbooster.com and learn first then you won't become a lol joke.

selling an enclosure for the rear of cab semi truck 28''X20''X6'' CUSTOM MADE ALUMINUM TO HOUSE HHO GENERATORS AND INCLUDING A RESERVOIR BUBBLER AND REGULAR BUBBLR ptoures@sbcglobal.net usa only
07-13-2009 03:57 PM
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JET USA Offline
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Post: #3
RE: W4G Electrolizer Install Not Yielding Results
(07-13-2009 10:26 AM)cpjp Wrote:  I have a W4G electrolizer installation in a 1990, 2.2L Honda Accord LX:

Setup (based on W4G instructions):

- wide mouth canning jar
- 3/8" plexi core
- 316L wire, 0.032 diameter, ~1/4" spacing, ? turns
- no MAP enhancer (is it a must??)
- Baking Soda 1/2 tsp, distilled water, draws ?? amps
- normal 15 AMP fuse to switch on dash
- one way check valve
- EFIE "maximized" to point where any further turning of the screw causes performance issues
- HHO production ~?? L/min (how exactly is that even measured?)
- My vacuum is achieved via a T into an intake manifold hose (my mechanic friend hooked it up for me)

In two tanks I've seen no measurable increase in fuel economy. I've purchase online books, DVDs, getting the 316L wire proved to be very expensive to get shipped to Canada. I'm slowly becmoning the laughing stock of all my social circles who think HHO is a joke.

What am I missing? Is it because I don't have the MAP enhancer? Maybe I have the EFIE wires connected to the wrong O2 sensor wires??
Any help that could be provided would be invaluable. I'll provide the most detailed answers, photos - anything. Am new to this forum. My apologies if this is an annoying "newbie" question.

Please do not be upset . I do not mean to criticize.
Hi It's no disgrace to be new. I respect you for being bold enough to try.
W4G system is OK but...
1. The cell optimum voltage is between 2 and 3 volts per element space.
2. More than one cell becomes necessary to avoid heat problems. These should be placed in series to be a voltage divider network. I have seen melt downs of the cell by overheating using w4G.
3. Volume of production is an issue. Insuficent surface area. That is why I am using plates. If you stick with W4G then you need 3 or maybe six cells. Perhaps two series sets of 3.
4. Baking soda is not the best electrolyte. It causes consumption of the elements of the cell by erosion. draws the iron and metal off of the plates and makes iron oxide contamination in the water. [brown sludge]
5. Glass is hazardous if there is an explosion.
6. Vacuum line introduction is not best [correct]. It may allow suction of all the electrolyte into the engine. Air introduction into the cell is a mistake for the same reason, besides it may cause foaming in the cell.
7. check the instructions for the EFIE Here is a link.
http://fuelsaver-mpg.com/affiliates/jrox.php?id=214
8. The oxy sensor to use is the one ahead of the cat. converter.
The settings are to shift the signal up slightly. Say about 0.250 volts by adding that to the running signal at the ox sensor. It varies constantly between near zero and one volt. {driven by the ecu and engine parameters} {Not easily understood, or easily measured}
9. I discovered that the map sensor mod described in the W4W pages didn't work for me. I had to modify the circuit by removing the ground connection from the potentiometers. That leaves only the pot in series with the signal wire from the sensor to the ecu. Not all cars have the same requirements. That worked for me. I am using a fuel ratio meter to monitor the oxygen sensor signal. It is a led bargraph display in a circle.
I Hope that this course of comments was helpful.
My site is http://waterworks4fuel.com You are welcome to look.

PS. I forgot to answer (How do we measure the hho production?) Invert a 1 or 2 liter bottle into a pitcher and insert the hose down into the pitcher then into the bottle that is filled with water. The gases displace the water and the bottle rises in the pitcher. Just time the displacement. (some of) My cells produce about 1 liter per minute at 30 amps load.
My cells are 5 spaces per cell using 11 plates. 4 plates are floaters in each cell. 2.75 volts per space.
spaces are 0.125 inch guaged by flat faucet washers suspended by plastic wire ties. see the pictures on my site.

http://Jet-USA.com
"Those who say" " It cannot be done"
"should get out of the way of those who are doing it"[/size][/align]
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2009 01:17 AM by JET USA.)
07-17-2009 12:25 AM
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cpjp Offline
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Post: #4
RE: W4G Electrolizer Install Not Yielding Results
Thank you. Very helpful reply. I appreciate your time.

I will check out your site. I checked out the smacksbooster site as suggested above. Intersting set up. Still browsing its links. I wish I knew a machinist.

cpjp
07-17-2009 07:15 AM
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JET USA Offline
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Post: #5
RE: W4G Electrolizer Install Not Yielding Results
(07-17-2009 07:15 AM)cpjp Wrote:  Thank you. Very helpful reply. I appreciate your time.

I will check out your site. I checked out the smacksbooster site as suggested above. Intersting set up. Still browsing its links. I wish I knew a machinist.

cpjp

May I suggest find a metal fabshop or metal plate dealer that can shear the material. or waterjet or laser cut the plate... 1/16 th inch plate.
grade 316L stainless prefered or grade 304 will work. I used a cabinet shell off of an scrapped ice machine from a metal recycler. I cut it with a grinder & cutoff abrasive wheel. Smack uses stainless wall plate covers. I would flatten them before assembly. I would suggest getting a vice and a 3/8 electric drill, and a 4.5 inch grinder to fab the parts.
I think that a water filter housing is a good choice, but I used abs pipe.
The final cost of the (abs) parts is about the same as the premade filter bottle. See the stuff on http://hydrogengarage.com for ideas.
I have been thinking of building one of the W4G cells just as a demonstrator. You can do it yourself. You have come this far so keep up the good work. And good luck. (luck doesn't really play a part)

Another ps: The elements for the W4G can be made out of (tig-welding 36 inch long .0625 dia. wire rods)type 316L welding rods.
They can be bought from a welding supply company. The come in a plastic tube package. If I didn't already have the rods, I wouldn't bother with the W4G cells.
pps: I also suggest using 3/8 inch stainless bolts for the electrical connections. (1/4 bolts over heat at 30 amps)
over heating bolts melt the top of the cell container and cause self distruction.

http://Jet-USA.com
"Those who say" " It cannot be done"
"should get out of the way of those who are doing it"[/size][/align]
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2009 12:18 PM by JET USA.)
07-17-2009 11:38 AM
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