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What am I missing?
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motalio Offline
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Post: #1
What am I missing?
Hi, I've been tinkering with my brown's gas system for a while now but foolishly been thinking I can figure everything out myself. I've got close to 20 Amps running through the thing, surely making at least 1 LPM. I've got a MAP enhancer, EFIE, and resistor set up in paralell with the ECT sensor on my OBD II Acura integra. The difference is not very impressive. At the very best I think I'm getting 15% better economy - and that's pretty optimistic. I can tell that all the sensor adjustments are doing something. I've got a scan tool and all I've ever come up with is BARO sensor circuit range error when CEL comes on. WTF?! If anyone's got any advice I'm all ears. Is that just all i'm going to be able to squeeze out of this thing? I would appreciate any advice I can get.
12-22-2008 06:32 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #2
RE: What am I missing?
Hi Motalio.

"surely making at least 1 LPM"... have you actually measured it or just guessing?

RE: your CEL, what's the code you're getting? Also what vehicle is this?

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
12-22-2008 06:55 PM
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motalio Offline
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RE: What am I missing?
colchiro Wrote:Hi Motalio.

"surely making at least 1 LPM"... have you actually measured it or just guessing?

RE: your CEL, what's the code you're getting? Also what vehicle is this?

I have not measured it exactly, no, but I've got a bubbler and it sure bubbles like crazy. I will do that though.

The code was P1106. I looked it up in my Hayne's repair manual.

The vehicle is a 1999 Acura integra LS.- no vtec.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2008 07:01 PM by motalio.)
12-22-2008 07:00 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #4
RE: What am I missing?
I just finished merging your posts and moving to the hho forum and was surprised you had already replied.Wink

P1106 sounds like a MAP sensor code. http://www.hotrodlane.cc/New%20LS%20Link...0P1106.htm

"If the PCM detects a MAP sensor signal voltage that is intermittently high, DTC P1106 will set."

also:

"The MAP sensor signal voltage is more than 4.3 volts for 20 seconds"

Have you tried removing your MAP sensor mod or turning it down? I may be wrong but I thought the MAP mods decreased the output, not increase it, which is what this CEL is saying.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2008 07:09 PM by colchiro.)
12-22-2008 07:06 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #5
RE: What am I missing?
... also from Tuning for Mileage:

"A high vacuum reading will give a low voltage signal. A low vacuum reading will give a high voltage signal. Low vacuum means the engine is under load and needs lots of fuel."

This tells me a couple things:
1. a high reading will richen your mixture, which is not what you want.
b. a high reading equates to a low vacuum reading
iii. in theory a low reading could be caused by a vacuum leak

by any chance are you adding hho to a vacuum line (or have you messed with a vacuum line)?

I'm guessing you have a vacuum leak or have the wrong MAP mod installed or it's connected wrong.

Also, if you check my autoshop link, there should be info under pressure sensors on how a MAP sensor works, which might give you some additional insight into your problem.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2008 07:19 PM by colchiro.)
12-22-2008 07:17 PM
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motalio Offline
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Post: #6
RE: What am I missing?
colchiro Wrote:I just finished merging your posts and moving to the hho forum and was surprised you had already replied.Wink

P1106 sounds like a MAP sensor code. http://www.hotrodlane.cc/New%20LS%20Link...0P1106.htm

"If the PCM detects a MAP sensor signal voltage that is intermittently high, DTC P1106 will set."

also:

"The MAP sensor signal voltage is more than 4.3 volts for 20 seconds"

Have you tried removing your MAP sensor mod or turning it down? I may be wrong but I thought the MAP mods decreased the output, not increase it, which is what this CEL is saying.

Yes, my quick reply is due to the fact that I am still online perusing as much information as I can in my frustration Crazy

The answer is yes I have. I have a MAP enhancer from hydrogen-fuelsaving-systems.com. I've tuned to be as high as I can get it without having any noticeable running problems. (very scientific, I know). It has two knobs designated for city and highway. I noticed I can run it somewhat higher resistance levels on the highway. But I've forgone messing with that, and decided I would be satisfied with one level that worked decently well. I thought I had everything tuned rather well due to the fact that the CEL has not really been an issue. It seems like in the morning when my HHO isn't quite working to full capacity yet, and I really push the adjustments is when the comp throws a code. That's only happened 2 or 3 times in a couple months. But the results just haven't been there.

Right now I have the EFIE set to about .240. I've had it up to .350 and run it without ever getting a CEL, but still not so much fuel economy, although I can breathe what's coming out of the tailpipe. Not a good idea I know, but you can't smell a thing - I've tried.

When I put the resistor in the ECT circuit, that seemed to help a little bit, allowing me to get about 300 miles per tank as opposed to about 280 before. Still not very impressive... I bet I'm missing something very fundamental because I haven't seen any significant boost in fuel economy since I started playing with this in the summertime. Oh well, at least I live in san diego where I don't have to worry about the thing freezing.

Oh, and btw. When I say high, i'm referring to the resistance levels in my map enhancer. A high resistance should lower the voltage right? The thing says 'lean' at one end and 'rich' at the other. I'm pushing it as much toward 'lean' as I can.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2008 07:40 PM by motalio.)
12-22-2008 07:33 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #7
RE: What am I missing?
My take on efie and MAP/MAF is that the efie has the final word and is better at convincing the ecu it needs to be leaner. Cranking up your MAP/MAF is fine when you don't have an efie, but if you do, I like to have the MAF/MAP set to a lower setting, like a 10% change from no mod (and leave it there) and use the efie to do the rest of the work.

In other words, I'd turn your MAP mod to be close to off and turn up the efie a bit.

I'm still puzzled by your MAP mod tho. I thought it should decrease the sensor's output, giving you the opposite code, a MAF output too low CEL, not the one you're getting. What are the connections you have, just sensor and ground? You don't have +12 connected to it do you? By any chance have you red the MAP sensor with your code reader to see if the adjustment changes the output properly? When you turn the MAF toward lean, you want your MAP sensor output to go lower.
12-22-2008 07:49 PM
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motalio Offline
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Post: #8
RE: What am I missing?
colchiro Wrote:My take on efie and MAP/MAF is that the efie has the final word and is better at convincing the ecu it needs to be leaner. Cranking up your MAP/MAF is fine when you don't have an efie, but if you do, I like to have the MAF/MAP set to a lower setting, like a 10% change from no mod (and leave it there) and use the efie to do the rest of the work.

In other words, I'd turn your MAP mod to be close to off and turn up the efie a bit.

I'm still puzzled by your MAP mod tho. I thought it should decrease the sensor's output, giving you the opposite code, a MAF output too low CEL, not the one you're getting. What are the connections you have, just sensor and ground? You don't have +12 connected to it do you? By any chance have you red the MAP sensor with your code reader to see if the adjustment changes the output properly? When you turn the MAF toward lean, you want your MAP sensor output to go lower.

Yeah, something's not right. I went down and turned on the car, cranked up the MAP mod almost all the way and the same code came up. I'll have to look at how I did the wiring. In the meantime, I'm just gonna leave it off and crank up the EFIE a bit, see how that works. The comp seems to be pretty tolerant of the EFIE.
12-22-2008 09:59 PM
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John Sargent Offline
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Post: #9
RE: What am I missing?
motalio Wrote:
colchiro Wrote:My take on efie and MAP/MAF is that the efie has the final word and is better at convincing the ecu it needs to be leaner. Cranking up your MAP/MAF is fine when you don't have an efie, but if you do, I like to have the MAF/MAP set to a lower setting, like a 10% change from no mod (and leave it there) and use the efie to do the rest of the work.

In other words, I'd turn your MAP mod to be close to off and turn up the efie a bit.

I'm still puzzled by your MAP mod tho. I thought it should decrease the sensor's output, giving you the opposite code, a MAF output too low CEL, not the one you're getting. What are the connections you have, just sensor and ground? You don't have +12 connected to it do you? By any chance have you red the MAP sensor with your code reader to see if the adjustment changes the output properly? When you turn the MAF toward lean, you want your MAP sensor output to go lower.

Yeah, something's not right. I went down and turned on the car, cranked up the MAP mod almost all the way and the same code came up. I'll have to look at how I did the wiring. In the meantime, I'm just gonna leave it off and crank up the EFIE a bit, see how that works. The comp seems to be pretty tolerant of the EFIE.

Howdy,
Isn't Acura made by Honda? If so, you may well have not the regular O2 sensors, but AFR sensors like I have in my 05 and 07 Hondas. EFIEs don't work with them; we all need a mod for AFRs that is in production and due out in January through fuel-saver.org. If your Acura is made by Honda, all those mods will be overcome by the ECM eventually and that would explain (at least to me) some of your results. The exact same thing happened to me on both of my Hondas. John
12-23-2008 05:02 AM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #10
RE: What am I missing?
'99 is about the time that Toyota introduced AFR's and I believe that Honda started about that same time or maybe a few years after.
12-23-2008 02:39 PM
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