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Which HHO design to build?
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syncromon Offline
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Post: #1
Which HHO design to build?
Hi, Im new here, and this is my first post.
Ive recently built and installed a 2 cell HHO system on my 1989 Vanagon. A friend built the cell shown in "water4fuel", and claimed a 25% increase in milage. I copied a design I saw on YouTube, that uses stainless steel screws and wire, twisted into a "double helix" shape. Im still experimenting with voltage (2 cells parallel 12V, or in series 6V) and using Baking Soda for electrolyte, and it seems like around 10 amps makes "a good amount of bubbles" without the containers getting too hot. I have not seen any increase in milage yet (the motor does run smoother), so I will be adding an efie next, and a PWM.
I need to build an output measuring device, (liter/minutes), I dont know how much gas Im producing, but Ive seen other cells (in videos) that seem to put out alot more gas than mine...and they claimed to be producing 1l/minute.
SO...to increase production I had considered adding 4 more cells, but Im thinking of building a new, more efficient cell...what materials seem to make cells with the best gas production, stainless steel tubes? plates?

THANKS! Syncromon
03-26-2008 11:52 AM
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xcite Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Which HHO design to build?
Its good you are looking into systems to make your vehicle more efficent. If you have a computer controlled vehicle you will need an efie and probably other adjusters to get any benifets.

I am sorry to say however that a few wires and screws twisted will not put out much hho. It is however a good starting point to learning about how it is made. You should look into plate type systems, surface area and spacing are more critical to more out put, as well as a few other things. You have the right thinking on more cells, this keeps the voltage and heat down for all the cells that way.

A good site for some good info is oupower.com
03-26-2008 02:16 PM
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mike Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Which HHO design to build?
Here's a full set of plans for an advanced electrolyser. Even if you don't build this one you can learn a lot from the article. Go to pesn.com/2007/09/29/9500450_BobBoyce_Electrolizer_Plans/, and then click on the "D9.pdf" link at the top of the article.

I would also highly recommend the HyZor manual from Eagle-Research.com. It costs $22 (last I looked), and is a full theory and plans for how to build an advanced HHO unit.

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03-26-2008 09:35 PM
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syncromon Offline
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RE: Which HHO design to build?
Welp, I had a productive day, I installed 2 more cells, I now have 4 cells (2 pairs of cells) running at 6V, and 7amps. The gas production looks REALLY good, the water in the bubbler is rolling! I also added an oxygen sensor spacer, which is supposed to remove the sensor from the direct exhaust stream, where it will detect less O2, and not tell the computer to add more gas.
It will take a couple days to put some miles on the van so I can figure out the mpg's. Im also going to build some sort of HHO measuring device...maybe just a bucket of water with a liter bottle, so I can get a rought idea of the output.
It seems like the cells I built are working good, not drawing too much power, and I will find out soon if the output is as good as it looks in the bubbler!
xcite Wrote:Its good you are looking into systems to make your vehicle more efficent. If you have a computer controlled vehicle you will need an efie and probably other adjusters to get any benifets.

I am sorry to say however that a few wires and screws twisted will not put out much hho. It is however a good starting point to learning about how it is made. You should look into plate type systems, surface area and spacing are more critical to more out put, as well as a few other things. You have the right thinking on more cells, this keeps the voltage and heat down for all the cells that way.

A good site for some good info is oupower.com
03-27-2008 05:39 PM
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mike Offline
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RE: Which HHO design to build?
Sounds exciting!

Let us know what the results are.

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03-27-2008 06:36 PM
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rdgeorge2008 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Which HHO design to build?
syncromon Wrote:Welp, I had a productive day, I installed 2 more cells, I now have 4 cells (2 pairs of cells) running at 6V, and 7amps. The gas production looks REALLY good, the water in the bubbler is rolling! I also added an oxygen sensor spacer, which is supposed to remove the sensor from the direct exhaust stream, where it will detect less O2, and not tell the computer to add more gas.
It will take a couple days to put some miles on the van so I can figure out the mpg's. Im also going to build some sort of HHO measuring device...maybe just a bucket of water with a liter bottle, so I can get a rought idea of the output.
It seems like the cells I built are working good, not drawing too much power, and I will find out soon if the output is as good as it looks in the bubbler!
xcite Wrote:Its good you are looking into systems to make your vehicle more efficent. If you have a computer controlled vehicle you will need an efie and probably other adjusters to get any benifets.

I am sorry to say however that a few wires and screws twisted will not put out much hho. It is however a good starting point to learning about how it is made. You should look into plate type systems, surface area and spacing are more critical to more out put, as well as a few other things. You have the right thinking on more cells, this keeps the voltage and heat down for all the cells that way.

A good site for some good info is oupower.com
if you dont use a pwm on a dc system your not majing browns gas which is stronger than hho plus you will not make anyheat using a pwm and a series cell is the way to go using plates but i had good resulrs using wire too
05-05-2008 04:48 PM
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jdram58 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Which HHO design to build?
I have to confess from multiple tests and experience the wire wrap electrolyzers just do not cut it compared to even the simplest plate design.

In fact I used the same plates as the Smack and cut them in half to get them to fit in my old Mason jars. I only used 8- 1/2 plates with doubled up plates on the + and - end plates. Regular 12 gage wire.

And this totally smoked any of my best wire configured units in gas production and volume produced!

Really forget about the wire to benefit your car even very small engines! They just don't or won't do a good job! And I didn't want to believe this either myself!

Really if you haven't got an electrlyzer that makes enough gas to push it through a one way valve and a bubbler! You might as well look for another plate design! Water 4Gas has some other good cheap DIY things if you join and good information to get to know more about HHO and browns gas. But I won't waste another minute or second trying to make something like the "wire electrtolyzer" try to work it is a dead cow!

I still use the jars with idea's from smack and the Hyzor thrown in but I will only use metal plates from now on.

8 little 2 x 3 inch stainless electic plate covers from Lowes or the 6 inch plates cut in half to fit into my old jars produced more volume and pressure gas than I have ever seen in any of my previous wire wrapped tests. And they are much easier and cheaper to make!

They can take a lot of heat and a lot of voltage with no problem whatsoever. I can put this right on the fire wall in a hot area of the engine with confidence they will not burn or melt and fall apart. In fact I am going to wrap them in copper tubing and heat them with engine coolant as well. The hotter the electrolyte the less resistance!

Maybe you think I am crazy! But I finally found an electrolyzer design that works and I can build myself easily and cheaply and produces a tone of gas I can see results from to me this was a Halelueah, Horay Eureka moment.

I realized to some degree you don't even need much or very large plates to produce a very large amount of gas. I think George wiseman was talking 1 inch high by 5 inches long was his optimum size plate! Out of vertually any type of metal not just limited to stainless steel.

I wonder what would happen if I relayed this to the Smack that I think I have a quarter smack or Smack junior out of a glass 2 quart Mason jar with eiether a plastic or metal lid and this thing really smokes or cooks for intense gas production. I know I was a surprised and delighted as you can get and still am!

No more worries of the plexi-glass or plastic towers melting and wires burning up if something shorts or a power surge and low gas production.

Really before I was just playing with a toy and now I have something I know is dangerous!

Really so I am expecting considerably better results with my mpg since I know there will be some actual measurable amounts of HHO finally going into my engine! I won't even turn it on until I know the engine is warmed up and the coolant is hot.

Granted I am still a Newby at this but arn't we all to one degree or other? But sometimes it helps to get informed and a lot of information from several or as many sources as you can and compare things and test things and make your own conclusions!

If I don't have enough or I think need more gas for an engine I can just build another Jar or Make or buy a whole Smack booster or two and connect them.

The "wire wrap" though wasn't a total loss it helped me to get to know about and understand HHO and how to experiemnt with it. But it has some severe design limitations as far as gas production and dealing with high heat or voltage. You do need to be worried or concerned about heat with these wire wrap designs (they can't take it) because they cannot take very much heat and they will melt or burn up much more easily. Sorry Ozy nothing personal! But I tested them every way I could think to test or try to eek out more gas production but they don't even come close to even the most simple or small plate design electrolyzer.

jdram58
06-14-2008 07:58 AM
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syncromon Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Which HHO design to build?
Thanks for your comment, I agree about the wire vs. plate cells. I want to upgrade my cells some time, My current cells are copied from a 'double helix design' which I saw on YouTube, they have SS screws inside the coils instead of plexi...I thought the screws would add a little more surface area than just the wire alone (they do give off alot of bubbles)...I think the flat plates (or even washers) do a much better job.
My main problem has been getting the EFIE to work on my vehicle, Mike was very helpful and sent replacements, but I cant get it to add a fixed voltage like it should...the reading's go down as the RPMs go up, and at an idle the reading goes way up. It also changes when the vehicle is running...Im pretty sure it is the computer in my vehicle, It is an engine conversion from another vehicle and it looks like the wiring has been altered on the ECU. Ive tried different power sources to the EFIE, different grounds, without knowing how to make the EFIE work, Im not sure I can get any benefits from HHO. Im stumped at this point.

jdram58 Wrote:I have to confess from multiple tests and experience the wire wrap electrolyzers just do not cut it compared to even the simplest plate design.

In fact I used the same plates as the Smack and cut them in half to get them to fit in my old Mason jars. I only used 8- 1/2 plates with doubled up plates on the + and - end plates. Regular 12 gage wire.

And this totally smoked any of my best wire configured units in gas production and volume produced!

Really forget about the wire to benefit your car even very small engines! They just don't or won't do a good job! And I didn't want to believe this either myself!

Really if you haven't got an electrlyzer that makes enough gas to push it through a one way valve and a bubbler! You might as well look for another plate design! Water 4Gas has some other good cheap DIY things if you join and good information to get to know more about HHO and browns gas. But I won't waste another minute or second trying to make something like the "wire electrtolyzer" try to work it is a dead cow!

I still use the jars with idea's from smack and the Hyzor thrown in but I will only use metal plates from now on.

8 little 2 x 3 inch stainless electic plate covers from Lowes or the 6 inch plates cut in half to fit into my old jars produced more volume and pressure gas than I have ever seen in any of my previous wire wrapped tests. And they are much easier and cheaper to make!

They can take a lot of heat and a lot of voltage with no problem whatsoever. I can put this right on the fire wall in a hot area of the engine with confidence they will not burn or melt and fall apart. In fact I am going to wrap them in copper tubing and heat them with engine coolant as well. The hotter the electrolyte the less resistance!

Maybe you think I am crazy! But I finally found an electrolyzer design that works and I can build myself easily and cheaply and produces a tone of gas I can see results from to me this was a Halelueah, Horay Eureka moment.

I realized to some degree you don't even need much or very large plates to produce a very large amount of gas. I think George wiseman was talking 1 inch high by 5 inches long was his optimum size plate! Out of vertually any type of metal not just limited to stainless steel.

I wonder what would happen if I relayed this to the Smack that I think I have a quarter smack or Smack junior out of a glass 2 quart Mason jar with eiether a plastic or metal lid and this thing really smokes or cooks for intense gas production. I know I was a surprised and delighted as you can get and still am!

No more worries of the plexi-glass or plastic towers melting and wires burning up if something shorts or a power surge and low gas production.

Really before I was just playing with a toy and now I have something I know is dangerous!

Really so I am expecting considerably better results with my mpg since I know there will be some actual measurable amounts of HHO finally going into my engine! I won't even turn it on until I know the engine is warmed up and the coolant is hot.

Granted I am still a Newby at this but arn't we all to one degree or other? But sometimes it helps to get informed and a lot of information from several or as many sources as you can and compare things and test things and make your own conclusions!

If I don't have enough or I think need more gas for an engine I can just build another Jar or Make or buy a whole Smack booster or two and connect them.

The "wire wrap" though wasn't a total loss it helped me to get to know about and understand HHO and how to experiemnt with it. But it has some severe design limitations as far as gas production and dealing with high heat or voltage. You do need to be worried or concerned about heat with these wire wrap designs (they can't take it) because they cannot take very much heat and they will melt or burn up much more easily. Sorry Ozy nothing personal! But I tested them every way I could think to test or try to eek out more gas production but they don't even come close to even the most simple or small plate design electrolyzer.

jdram58
06-14-2008 08:50 AM
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