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Winter Sol Test3: Rub Alcohol + NaOH
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gtkco Offline
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Post: #1
Winter Sol Test3: Rub Alcohol + NaOH
Hi Guys,
I haven't had the time to type up all the data. Still working on the production results. But I have attached a summery table on the working freeze temps of Rub Alcohol 70% and NaOH. There are some issues with the 40% concentration but that so far is only with acrylic. Seems to cause a complete structural failure above 120F.

Colchiro, the 40% might work for even your neck of the woods. But, my freezor will only go down to -5 avg so my table is pure extrapolation. However, I see that you have some real cold weather (-10) due on tuesday. In theory, it shouldn't get much past the slushy stage at that level. If you have a mason jar handy and mix up the 500ml solution in the spreadsheet we might get an idea if my exprapolations are even close. Not that you don't have anything better to do 2 days before Christmas.Big Grin At any rate, I am using Fargo, Cleveland and Atlanta as my test targets. Atlanta is pretty easy, Cleveland I think I have licked, Fargo is proving to be quite the challange! I probably won't get to post production issues/data until after Christmas. But rubbing alcohol is still looking quite promising.


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(This post was last modified: 12-21-2008 10:13 PM by gtkco.)
12-21-2008 10:07 PM
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realtyroy Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Winter Sol Test3: Rub Alcohol + NaOH
gtkco Wrote:Hi Guys,
I haven't had the time to type up all the data. Still working on the production results. But I have attached a summery table on the working freeze temps of Rub Alcohol 70% and NaOH. There are some issues with the 40% concentration but that so far is only with acrylic. Seems to cause a complete structural failure above 120F.

Colchiro, the 40% might work for even your neck of the woods. But, my freezor will only go down to -5 avg so my table is pure extrapolation. However, I see that you have some real cold weather (-10) due on tuesday. In theory, it shouldn't get much past the slushy stage at that level. If you have a mason jar handy and mix up the 500ml solution in the spreadsheet we might get an idea if my exprapolations are even close. Not that you don't have anything better to do 2 days before Christmas.Big Grin At any rate, I am using Fargo, Cleveland and Atlanta as my test targets. Atlanta is pretty easy, Cleveland I think I have licked, Fargo is proving to be quite the challange! I probably won't get to post production issues/data until after Christmas. But rubbing alcohol is still looking quite promising.

I'm wondering about the longevity of using the alcohol. When I make up a batch its great for a little while but after about three days I'm getting slush again. Temp here is in the teens right now.

RealtyRoy-HHO Scambuster
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12-22-2008 10:24 AM
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gtkco Offline
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RE: Winter Sol Test3: Rub Alcohol + NaOH
realtyroy Wrote:I'm wondering about the longevity of using the alcohol. When I make up a batch its great for a little while but after about three days I'm getting slush again. Temp here is in the teens right now.

Good question. I have done one test of the 23% elite that had run a total of 26 hours. The first cycle of 2hours had a Temp range 65-145. The rest had temp ranges 65-91F. I also did three freeze cycles with it. The elite lost about 3-4 degrees of freeze protection after the first run of 2 hours. Then it seemed to stablize at the freeze level of 14F. Also, at this point under normal operations and with a more productive gen, one would be adding more winter elite (h2o+rubbing. NO MORE Naoh) thus refreshing the alcohol. So, I think it is still promising. Still testing.... Also, slush is still ok. I based my table estimates on whether I think the gen will be damaged due to expansion. Even if the temp probe will stand in the slush but I can still easily stir the slush with the probe, the elite is still soft enough to expand without damaging the gen. Granted this is an assumption but I think it is reasonable.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2008 11:35 AM by gtkco.)
12-22-2008 11:25 AM
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Gary Offline
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RE: Winter Sol Test3: Rub Alcohol + NaOH
gtkco: can you try the hydrogen peroxide for us? I heard it works, but I'd think that it would foam under production myself.
12-22-2008 05:15 PM
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gtkco Offline
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RE: Winter Sol Test3: Rub Alcohol + NaOH
Gary Wrote:gtkco: can you try the hydrogen peroxide for us? I heard it works, but I'd think that it would foam under production myself.

Yes I can and I will. But I thought I read somewhere that perodixe breaks down under electrolysis. That's why I never considered it. I don't know. I've read so much and taken so many notes I can't remember up from down!Crazy I am still encouraged by the rub alch and want to finish the analysis. But it is slow going. It takes a full day to do a freeze test with hourly temp samples and then high temp and low temp production runs followed by more freeze cycles to see what happens to production rates and freeze rates. Also, having the 40% cause a catastrophic failure of 2 acrylic test generators really slowed things down. I am using those wal mart canasters which are great for lab testing and seeing what is going on but I never thought they would behave this way. Every day is a surprise! Even in spite of this, Rub has another good trait. Unlike methanol and SLX it doesn't have a great affect on the ignition rate of the HHO. At first startup the lighting starts like H2 + say 40% of the way to HHO. But within 2-3 minutes it is at say 70% and by 10 minutes it ignites like HHO (Even at the 40% level) and stays that way. SLX and Methanol produced H2 ignition like rates through out the entire production run.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2008 07:40 PM by gtkco.)
12-22-2008 07:39 PM
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Gary Offline
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RE: Winter Sol Test3: Rub Alcohol + NaOH
That's actually very interesting and useful. You've been a boon to us.
The peroxide thing I mentioned because some guys up in Canada are using it on big trucks, but I don't know how successfully.
12-22-2008 08:14 PM
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