absolute bust on milage-negative results 97 honda crv HELP?

[n4yn]

:(i have a 97 honda crv--4 wire o2 (says oxygen sensor in the haynes book)
one before one after converter.. i can see no change at any setting of the efie(which seems to be working) the milage doesn't go up-but always down. it took a dip to 20mph after installiing hydro super 2 single hho gen. the car took about a week to get over it and back to the 30mpg i had before screwing with it... on the efie; it seems to work, i can vary the voltage form about nothing up to .5 volts, however this seem to have no effect on anything about gas milage. i've traced my wiring and i am hooked to the output of the first o2 sensor.. ken's hho generator is set up with cold amps about 7 and when hot it runs close to 20, lots of bubbling, i pressure tested the tank and tubing to 4 psi, so it doesn't leak..
i also bought his controls for the temp sensor and the map.. the temp does its thing; ie the incoming air temp goes way up, and gas milage on the scanguage goes up, and the performance of the car goes down so much, the milage tanks unless you are coasting downhill; good milage coasting, milage goes to 9 or 10mpg with almost any acceleration..the map trashed the milage so bad i unhooked it..
so far the only thing i've bought from ken smith that worked is the o2 spacer, an the computer seems to get over it in about 3-4 days, and it's back to 30mpg (jumped to 34mpg for a couple of days)
bb right now i've got all this hooked up- the spacer, the hho going at 17amps, the efie at .25 volts and i get 28mpg..
i need help, don

[mike]

My first burning question is: How are you measuring your mileage? You realize, I hope, that as soon as you start making sensor mods, that the ScanGauge mileage will be inaccurate. You have to use the odometer and gallons of gas put in the tank, and math. The scan gauge uses the air/fuel ratio for example as part of it's mileage calcs. The HHO gas, and the EFIE both cause changes in the computer's perception of AFR. The bottom line is that this method of determining mileage is not usable anymore. The scan gauge, of course, is excellent for determining the results of your sensor mods.

If mileage is tanking after using the MAP sensor handler, then you probably have the other type of sensor. Please see http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/doc/TuningForMileage.html , for more information on the subject of tuning your sensors.

[colchiro]

I'd disable everything and re-check your base mileage, then introduce things one at a time, starting with the hho, making a note of what helps and what doesn't. If you're not sure if it helps, leave it off for now. You can always come back to it.

[ronjd]

I have researched, studied and experimented with HHO devices plus 2 EIFE's on a 1994 Ford. I tried the O2 spacers, modified the MAP and Temp sensor outputs. I have come to the conclusion that most of the computers are so tightly controlled internally that any modification to any sensor will place the computer into a "Limp" until repaired. For example in the 1994 Ford computer, the O2 sensor output is not an even 1.0 volt signal but rather a series of pulses either high or low depending on what the computer told the injector to do. The computer purposely changes the fuel load on each cylinder then reads it back via the O2 sensor because it is an algorithim for checking out the system in real time, it's called ODB-I or ODB-II depending upon the year of manufacture. If the computer detects anything out of the ordinary it will go into backup mode so you can still drive to a repair facility. The backup mode puts the injectors into a fixed mode and no automatic adjustments are made. The point I'm trying to make is unless we can somehow change the operating characteristics of the computer we are doomed to fail. I think EPA and the oil companies had something to do with these mandates. The computers will not allow any mods to the operating systems, therefore we are stuck with straight gasoline and huge profits for the 7 sisters.

[n4yn]

i was using the pencil method, along with the scanguage; but if the scanguage is no longer useable after the first mod, how do you keep up with the adjustments?? if you wait for fillups this make take years before you can tell any difference---there's gotta be a better way the only thing i can tell changes the milage on the scanguage is the incoming air --my stomach can stand only so much before the ulcers kick in.
don

[mike]

I'm sorry, but your source of information was faulty. Mods can be successfully made to these computers. People do it here all the time. Some computers are a tough nut to crack, but they all eventually crack by applying http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/doc/TuningForMileage.html - The majority will work fine with a good HHO unit and an EFIE.

OBD-I and II don't actually have anything to do with the oxygen sensors. They are a mandated standardization of the interface to the computer, and required functionality in the computer. They stand for On Board Diagnostics. The oxygen sensors haven't changed because of these standardizations.

[n4yn]

ok mike;
can i use any of the scanguage's info after the originial mileage check? this sounds like it will take years of fussing with a lot of variables on top of poky drivers and just two places in yancey county that are flat. will the gph be usable? ie go same speed, and read gph instead? sounds like that scanguage is worth about 10 cents for this job..

[jksav7]

You'll have to just be patient and run one gas tank at a time, making sure that the fillups are consistent, etc. No easy way out here.

n4yn Wrote:ok mike;
can i use any of the scanguage's info after the originial mileage check? this sounds like it will take years of fussing with a lot of variables on top of poky drivers and just two places in yancey county that are flat. will the gph be usable? ie go same speed, and read gph instead? sounds like that scanguage is worth about 10 cents for this job..

[n4yn]

o k guys; mike;
looks like i start over (again) thanks for the help! i thought scanguage was a little more useful than it is--i'll go aggravate the gas station .. close this thread if you want mike, it'll be awhile before i'm back!
don

[colchiro]

n4yn, at fillup, if the amount of gas your SG says is the same as what you filled, you should be pretty close.