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is this worthwhile???
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mtnhillsman Offline
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Post: #1
is this worthwhile???
I have a 35 foot coachmen motorhome with a ford 460 engine. It is a 1992, is fuel injected but its the "easy" fuel injection (to deal with HHO wise).

I am trying to decide whether or not it is worthwhile to build a large electrolyser for this vehicle. It gets 6-7 mpg while towing a car which was impossible to afford when gas prices were high.

My thoughts for design were building four, 6-7 cell electrolysers (all in one unit). Each unit would put out about 2 liters per minute, taking about 20-30 amps each. The reason for the 4 logically separate units is to keep the amperage down in each one and allowing multiple power supply lines. A big issue I overcame (using this site) is high amperage running through stainless steel doesent work well. Another member had informed me that the resistance of SS is 42 times higher than that of copper.

So anyway, id be talking 80 or so amps to power the whole thing. How am i going to do that?? Well, thats where the multiple supply lines come in. 2 of them would get powered off the engine, 40 amps, could possibly go with 3 but to be on the safe side and not overload the alternator. I have a Honda 2000 watt generator, on half load it will run 6 hours on 1.1 gallons of fuel. If i were to mount and run this while traveling, and plug the motorhome into it I would then have another 40 amps for the Motorhome's inverter which powers the living space while plugged in. While not getting too detailed here, most everything inside runs on 12v, off 2 truck batteries that are totally separate from teh engine battery. when you plug the thing in to shore power the 40 amp inverter(battery charger) kicks on and gives you 40 amps to charge the house batteries and run the 12v stuff inside. The engine also charges the house batteries.

So if anybody is still interested and still reading Smile... what do you think?? Its alot of time to invest on one hand, on the other the vehicle sits and rots when gas prices are high.. The main thing i want to find out is what people have gotten or would expect me to get mileage wise out of a vehicle of this size.
01-22-2009 06:17 PM
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hydrotinkerer Offline
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Post: #2
RE: is this worthwhile???
I believe realtyroy has his motorhome hooked to hho. You might pm him and see.
01-22-2009 07:24 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #3
RE: is this worthwhile???
That's a tough act. I suggest you get the Nissan mastered first, then start on this beast. You can probably improve mileage best by removing any unnecessary weight and keeping your highway speed no higher than 50-55 mph.

I think running the motor home AND the Honda won't be very efficient. Doesn't your motor home have a high-output alternator, capable of handling 50-60 additional amps? You're really going to want a couple of large, very efficient dry cells for this baby. 20-30 amps for 2 LPM is not what I would call efficient. You should easily be able to do 2 LPM with well under 20 amps.

Also bear in mind, the towed vehicle needs to roll very easily so pumping up the tires should help a lot.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
01-22-2009 07:34 PM
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ptours99 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: is this worthwhile???
i'd say use a vaporizer in conjunction w/hho cells.you'd get a minimum 20-25%just w/a vapoizer,and could get more if it's a carb.

selling an enclosure for the rear of cab semi truck 28''X20''X6'' CUSTOM MADE ALUMINUM TO HOUSE HHO GENERATORS AND INCLUDING A RESERVOIR BUBBLER AND REGULAR BUBBLR ptoures@sbcglobal.net usa only
01-22-2009 07:35 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #5
RE: is this worthwhile???
(01-22-2009 06:17 PM)mtnhillsman Wrote:  I have a 35 foot coachmen motorhome with a ford 460 engine. It is a 1992, is fuel injected but its the "easy" fuel injection (to deal with HHO wise).

I am trying to decide whether or not it is worthwhile to build a large electrolyser for this vehicle. It gets 6-7 mpg while towing a car which was impossible to afford when gas prices were high.

My thoughts for design were building four, 6-7 cell electrolysers (all in one unit). Each unit would put out about 2 liters per minute, taking about 20-30 amps each. The reason for the 4 logically separate units is to keep the amperage down in each one and allowing multiple power supply lines. A big issue I overcame (using this site) is high amperage running through stainless steel doesent work well. Another member had informed me that the resistance of SS is 42 times higher than that of copper.

So anyway, id be talking 80 or so amps to power the whole thing. How am i going to do that?? Well, thats where the multiple supply lines come in. 2 of them would get powered off the engine, 40 amps, could possibly go with 3 but to be on the safe side and not overload the alternator. I have a Honda 2000 watt generator, on half load it will run 6 hours on 1.1 gallons of fuel. If i were to mount and run this while traveling, and plug the motorhome into it I would then have another 40 amps for the Motorhome's inverter which powers the living space while plugged in. While not getting too detailed here, most everything inside runs on 12v, off 2 truck batteries that are totally separate from teh engine battery. when you plug the thing in to shore power the 40 amp inverter(battery charger) kicks on and gives you 40 amps to charge the house batteries and run the 12v stuff inside. The engine also charges the house batteries.

So if anybody is still interested and still reading Smile... what do you think?? Its alot of time to invest on one hand, on the other the vehicle sits and rots when gas prices are high.. The main thing i want to find out is what people have gotten or would expect me to get mileage wise out of a vehicle of this size.

I live in an oil producing State and also trade a few stocks and commodities. The experts, of which I am not, say just as oil overshot to $144/bbl. it undershot to $34/bbl. Right now it's about $44/bbl. Eight out of 10 oil futures traders believe we've seen the bottom of oil prices. Because of the recent low oil prices all O & G companies have cut back, i.e. they're not looking for more oil. The OPEC cutbacks will eventually have an effect. Yes, demand is down; but, not as much as you think [2% less if you compare '07 to '08]. The net result has to be rising prices because of decreased production. You bought your motor home to enjoy not to rust. I think you're ahead of the curve thinking about HHO for the travel season.

Your big problem is the usual drag on the engine due to increased alternator load to produce HHO. I've often thought of using a deep cycle trolling motor battery, like I have in my boat, in the trunk to run the HHO generator and just charge it up every night. Whether you build or buy your cells another consideration. I'm not a cell builder; I'd rather spend the money for a proven product. Two of those 8x8 21 plate cells on ebay just might do the trick; you'll probably need 8 to 10 lpm to make any difference. I gather you are of the opinion you don't need an EFIE? Why not? you comment: "the 'easy' fuel injection has me puzzled.
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2009 08:54 PM by thomasbala.)
01-22-2009 08:51 PM
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mtnhillsman Offline
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Post: #6
RE: is this worthwhile???
(01-22-2009 08:51 PM)thomasbala Wrote:  
(01-22-2009 06:17 PM)mtnhillsman Wrote:  I have a 35 foot coachmen motorhome with a ford 460 engine. It is a 1992, is fuel injected but its the "easy" fuel injection (to deal with HHO wise).

I am trying to decide whether or not it is worthwhile to build a large electrolyser for this vehicle. It gets 6-7 mpg while towing a car which was impossible to afford when gas prices were high.

My thoughts for design were building four, 6-7 cell electrolysers (all in one unit). Each unit would put out about 2 liters per minute, taking about 20-30 amps each. The reason for the 4 logically separate units is to keep the amperage down in each one and allowing multiple power supply lines. A big issue I overcame (using this site) is high amperage running through stainless steel doesent work well. Another member had informed me that the resistance of SS is 42 times higher than that of copper.

So anyway, id be talking 80 or so amps to power the whole thing. How am i going to do that?? Well, thats where the multiple supply lines come in. 2 of them would get powered off the engine, 40 amps, could possibly go with 3 but to be on the safe side and not overload the alternator. I have a Honda 2000 watt generator, on half load it will run 6 hours on 1.1 gallons of fuel. If i were to mount and run this while traveling, and plug the motorhome into it I would then have another 40 amps for the Motorhome's inverter which powers the living space while plugged in. While not getting too detailed here, most everything inside runs on 12v, off 2 truck batteries that are totally separate from teh engine battery. when you plug the thing in to shore power the 40 amp inverter(battery charger) kicks on and gives you 40 amps to charge the house batteries and run the 12v stuff inside. The engine also charges the house batteries.

So if anybody is still interested and still reading Smile... what do you think?? Its alot of time to invest on one hand, on the other the vehicle sits and rots when gas prices are high.. The main thing i want to find out is what people have gotten or would expect me to get mileage wise out of a vehicle of this size.

I live in an oil producing State and also trade a few stocks and commodities. The experts, of which I am not, say just as oil overshot to $144/bbl. it undershot to $34/bbl. Right now it's about $44/bbl. Eight out of 10 oil futures traders believe we've seen the bottom of oil prices. Because of the recent low oil prices all O & G companies have cut back, i.e. they're not looking for more oil. The OPEC cutbacks will eventually have an effect. Yes, demand is down; but, not as much as you think [2% less if you compare '07 to '08]. The net result has to be rising prices because of decreased production. You bought your motor home to enjoy not to rust. I think you're ahead of the curve thinking about HHO for the travel season.

Your big problem is the usual drag on the engine due to increased alternator load to produce HHO. I've often thought of using a deep cycle trolling motor battery, like I have in my boat, in the trunk to run the HHO generator and just charge it up every night. Whether you build or buy your cells another consideration. I'm not a cell builder; I'd rather spend the money for a proven product. Two of those 8x8 21 plate cells on ebay just might do the trick; you'll probably need 8 to 10 lpm to make any difference. I gather you are of the opinion you don't need an EFIE? Why not? you comment: "the 'easy' fuel injection has me puzzled.


Well, easier...I will need an efie. i just meant back then "fuel injection" meant a carburetor with 2 fuel injectors sitting on top of it rather than modern fuel injection. I guess its not actually any easier maybe just easier to comprehend.
01-22-2009 09:38 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #7
RE: is this worthwhile???
(01-22-2009 09:38 PM)mtnhillsman Wrote:  
(01-22-2009 08:51 PM)thomasbala Wrote:  
(01-22-2009 06:17 PM)mtnhillsman Wrote:  I have a 35 foot coachmen motorhome with a ford 460 engine. It is a 1992, is fuel injected but its the "easy" fuel injection (to deal with HHO wise).

I am trying to decide whether or not it is worthwhile to build a large electrolyser for this vehicle. It gets 6-7 mpg while towing a car which was impossible to afford when gas prices were high.

My thoughts for design were building four, 6-7 cell electrolysers (all in one unit). Each unit would put out about 2 liters per minute, taking about 20-30 amps each. The reason for the 4 logically separate units is to keep the amperage down in each one and allowing multiple power supply lines. A big issue I overcame (using this site) is high amperage running through stainless steel doesent work well. Another member had informed me that the resistance of SS is 42 times higher than that of copper.

So anyway, id be talking 80 or so amps to power the whole thing. How am i going to do that?? Well, thats where the multiple supply lines come in. 2 of them would get powered off the engine, 40 amps, could possibly go with 3 but to be on the safe side and not overload the alternator. I have a Honda 2000 watt generator, on half load it will run 6 hours on 1.1 gallons of fuel. If i were to mount and run this while traveling, and plug the motorhome into it I would then have another 40 amps for the Motorhome's inverter which powers the living space while plugged in. While not getting too detailed here, most everything inside runs on 12v, off 2 truck batteries that are totally separate from teh engine battery. when you plug the thing in to shore power the 40 amp inverter(battery charger) kicks on and gives you 40 amps to charge the house batteries and run the 12v stuff inside. The engine also charges the house batteries.

So if anybody is still interested and still reading Smile... what do you think?? Its alot of time to invest on one hand, on the other the vehicle sits and rots when gas prices are high.. The main thing i want to find out is what people have gotten or would expect me to get mileage wise out of a vehicle of this size.

I live in an oil producing State and also trade a few stocks and commodities. The experts, of which I am not, say just as oil overshot to $144/bbl. it undershot to $34/bbl. Right now it's about $44/bbl. Eight out of 10 oil futures traders believe we've seen the bottom of oil prices. Because of the recent low oil prices all O & G companies have cut back, i.e. they're not looking for more oil. The OPEC cutbacks will eventually have an effect. Yes, demand is down; but, not as much as you think [2% less if you compare '07 to '08]. The net result has to be rising prices because of decreased production. You bought your motor home to enjoy not to rust. I think you're ahead of the curve thinking about HHO for the travel season.

Your big problem is the usual drag on the engine due to increased alternator load to produce HHO. I've often thought of using a deep cycle trolling motor battery, like I have in my boat, in the trunk to run the HHO generator and just charge it up every night. Whether you build or buy your cells another consideration. I'm not a cell builder; I'd rather spend the money for a proven product. Two of those 8x8 21 plate cells on ebay just might do the trick; you'll probably need 8 to 10 lpm to make any difference. I gather you are of the opinion you don't need an EFIE? Why not? you comment: "the 'easy' fuel injection has me puzzled.


Well, easier...I will need an efie. i just meant back then "fuel injection" meant a carburetor with 2 fuel injectors sitting on top of it rather than modern fuel injection. I guess its not actually any easier maybe just easier to comprehend.


You've got throttle body injection as opposed to port or cylinder injection. I think you're in luck. It's apparent you've got the old tried and true 460 CID but with TBI rather than a carb. Anyone on this board will tell you it's a lot easier to get gains with a carburated engine than with port injection used almost universally nowadays. In essence there's not so much of an ECU stranglehold on lambda, the magical 14.7 to 1 air fuel ratio. I'd say your chances are more than very good at getting very significant gains from HHO and an EFIE.
01-22-2009 10:03 PM
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michegander Offline
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Post: #8
RE: is this worthwhile???
I have just read the post about the RV motor home I have a 1998 ford V-10 motor home 32' and have had good results with 5-generators MPG went from 8-11 MPG to 17-MPG I use 5/16" rods with 1.5 tsp. baking soda in each. on a 96* day the total amps are 4.25 which Vera's to the temp. outside I have 3000 miles on them still looking good I'm going to put it on the generator of the motor home on the way home in April and see if I can take the load off the V-10 to improve the MPG with out HHO going to the V-10 "HHO going just to the generator", I'm cleaning them up now and getting ready for the trip home as you know the generator has a no fuel injection crab. only.

Michegander MI.
01-27-2009 04:53 AM
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