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plate layout
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fixityourselfer Offline
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Post: #1
plate layout
am looking into building a dry cell. found this nice video...seems perfect for a beginner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrovCAzg_kY

can someone explain one thing before i go into it, i see some designs use
a +-+-+-+- configuration, while others look like this: +nnnnn- whats up with the neutrals? if they're necessary, how come some designs leave them out?
(please go easy here...i'm still in the learning stage lol)
05-14-2009 09:42 PM
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martinruf Offline
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Post: #2
RE: plate layout
My way you can read in http://www.fuel-saver.org/Thread-Victor-Cell-no-output
I have a wet cell.

The difference between wet and dry cell is: that you fill a wet cell till the top, you will have a dry cell (and need a 2. canister to seperate HHO und electrolyte).

About 2 Volts between the plates will generate HHO. The rest will make heat.
You count the spaces between + and -
Modell + - will make 2 Volt HHO and 10 Volt heat
Modell +nnnn- will make 5 spaces. 12 Volt / 5 spaces = 2.5 Volts ( 2 Volts HHO and 0.5 Volts heat)
Modell +nnnnn- will make 6 spaces. 12 Volt / 6 spaces = 2.0 Volts. (HHO and no heat)
>but the cars generator will produce little more volts than 12

BUT
lower Volts (lower heat) mean higher level of KOH (kalium hydroxyd) to reach the same needed Amp.
AND
if the spaces between two plates are smaller you will need lower level of KOH.

I measured first Cell to the bottle and I got near by 1l/min at 5°C temperatur air.
In the car I have it on the vakuum. In the calculation of the needed water, I get 2.5 l/min.
Also an influence have the temperatur of the cell while you make the output test.

That is my know how of my practical implementation and the help from this forum.

Martin

Ford C-Max 1.8i flexfuel (petrol)
Victor-Tupperware-Cell
4x 5N at 1-2AMP
20% less Liter/100km
05-15-2009 01:51 AM
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fixityourselfer Offline
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Post: #3
RE: plate layout
thanks man
05-17-2009 08:44 AM
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tonyc860 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: plate layout
Don't waste your time with the switch plates. You'll find yourself wanting a better cell each time. The ss in a switch plate is 304 go straight to the top and get the 316. I got mine from msc industrial . 316 20 ga is fine. Otherwise it will discolor and hinder production. PVC Pan liner didn't work for me. I used neoprene rubber for gaskets 60 durometer got it from rubbercal. The purpose of this forum is to get info on other people's trial and errors. You may as well skip all the experimenting we did in the past and join us where we are now.

The plate layout is accurately explained though. Just remember more amps doesn't always benefit as the engine is under a greater load to create the amps, burning more fuel to do so and washing out out or maybe costing more overall. 10-20amps on your volvo (hot).

Do you have the daytime running lamps on your volvo? If so disconnect them you might see a gain there, lol. I did. If not in gas at least you won't spend money on new bulbs every month!

g luck!

(05-14-2009 09:42 PM)fixityourselfer Wrote:  am looking into building a dry cell. found this nice video...seems perfect for a beginner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrovCAzg_kY

can someone explain one thing before i go into it, i see some designs use
a +-+-+-+- configuration, while others look like this: +nnnnn- whats up with the neutrals? if they're necessary, how come some designs leave them out?
(please go easy here...i'm still in the learning stage lol)

here are the links:
www1.mscdirect.com
http://www.rubbercal.com/Product_line.html

and the site where to get your containers for your res and bubbler on your drycell.
http://fluids.flambeau.com/

Tony
2003 Volvo v70 2.5L turbo
2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L v6
2005 F150 4.6 ltr-No longer Thank God!Smile
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2009 09:24 AM by tonyc860.)
05-17-2009 09:19 AM
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fixityourselfer Offline
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Post: #5
RE: plate layout
hi thanks for the links,

when you say it didn't work , do you mean that it leaks?
05-17-2009 10:40 AM
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tonyc860 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: plate layout
yes, seems to be a little thin. it lasted for a little while but few days it leaked. The neoprene never leaked on me, its been 8 months now.

(05-17-2009 10:40 AM)fixityourselfer Wrote:  hi thanks for the links,

when you say it didn't work , do you mean that it leaks?

Tony
2003 Volvo v70 2.5L turbo
2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L v6
2005 F150 4.6 ltr-No longer Thank God!Smile
05-17-2009 11:16 AM
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fixityourselfer Offline
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Post: #7
RE: plate layout
is it necessary to use 20 gauge ss?

my search on the forum showed someone saying the best plate thickness is .9mm to 1.2mm (20ga would fit right in there)

however, can the 22ga or 24 ga be used? while i don't have it in my hands, i'd imagine it's easy to work with, and can be cut with a hand shears at home, and its cheaper as well, but if its no good, i'll have the place cut up the 20 ga for me.

can anyone vouch for the .9mm-1.2mm being optimum thickness, and that anything thinner wouldn't perform as well?

again, thanks alot everyone
05-18-2009 06:43 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #8
RE: plate layout
You've got to be careful with thin plates. You want equal distance between all the plates and you really don't want them to warp and short out. That's a good way to blow it up.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
05-18-2009 06:48 PM
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fixityourselfer Offline
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Post: #9
RE: plate layout
(05-18-2009 06:48 PM)colchiro Wrote:  You've got to be careful with thin plates. You want equal distance between all the plates and you really don't want them to warp and short out. That's a good way to blow it up.
does that apply to dry cells too? in a wet cell that would certainly be a concern, but i'm planning on putting it into a dry cell with enough fine quality gasket all around the edges, and the usual stiff 1/4" plexiglass at each end, I imagine that should keep it all in order ? I was wondering if the electrical/hho producing quality of it is equal to the thicker stuff?
05-18-2009 07:29 PM
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tonyc860 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: plate layout
(05-18-2009 07:29 PM)fixityourselfer Wrote:  
(05-18-2009 06:48 PM)colchiro Wrote:  You've got to be careful with thin plates. You want equal distance between all the plates and you really don't want them to warp and short out. That's a good way to blow it up.
does that apply to dry cells too? in a wet cell that would certainly be a concern, but i'm planning on putting it into a dry cell with enough fine quality gasket all around the edges, and the usual stiff 1/4" plexiglass at each end, I imagine that should keep it all in order ? I was wondering if the electrical/hho producing quality of it is equal to the thicker stuff?

You really don't want to go below 20ga., in a dry cell you'll want 1/8 space between the cell plates (the spacing is part of the added benefit, I have tried to cut the plates with snips before, not recommended. You would need a high quality shear to cut something flat. Lesser will leave a curled edge which you don't want.

I have so much $&*^& from the beginning because I rushed the process. Quality is very important, the things that don't seem important indeed are. Not sure what size plates you are looking for but you can go to http://www.fireinthewater.com . That is the site for the sid's cell. This is a high quality cell that many have tried to replicate. His is a little pricey but you see why in the finished product. He does cell 8x8 & 6x6 individual plates and gaskets. If you write or call him I am sure he can send you plate stock to your size. It'll be ready to go then you just assemble it. Overall the cost will be close to the same if you bought the stock and fab'd it yourself.
(05-18-2009 07:29 PM)fixityourselfer Wrote:  
(05-18-2009 06:48 PM)colchiro Wrote:  You've got to be careful with thin plates. You want equal distance between all the plates and you really don't want them to warp and short out. That's a good way to blow it up.
does that apply to dry cells too? in a wet cell that would certainly be a concern, but i'm planning on putting it into a dry cell with enough fine quality gasket all around the edges, and the usual stiff 1/4" plexiglass at each end, I imagine that should keep it all in order ? I was wondering if the electrical/hho producing quality of it is equal to the thicker stuff?

You really don't want to go below 20ga., in a dry cell you'll want 1/8 space between the cell plates (the spacing is part of the added benefit, I have tried to cut the plates with snips before, not recommended. You would need a high quality shear to cut something flat. Lesser will leave a curled edge which you don't want.

I have so much $&*^& from the beginning because I rushed the process. Quality is very important, the things that don't seem important indeed are. Not sure what size plates you are looking for but you can go to http://www.fireinthewater.com . That is the site for the sid's cell. This is a high quality cell that many have tried to replicate. His is a little pricey but you see why in the finished product. He does cell 8x8 & 6x6 individual plates and gaskets. If you write or call him I am sure he can send you plate stock to your size. It'll be ready to go then you just assemble it. Overall the cost will be close to the same if you bought the stock and fab'd it yourself.

Tony
2003 Volvo v70 2.5L turbo
2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L v6
2005 F150 4.6 ltr-No longer Thank God!Smile
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2009 01:51 AM by tonyc860.)
05-19-2009 01:50 AM
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