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simple water/methonal injection with efie
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77 chevy k30 Offline
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Post: #1
simple water/methonal injection with efie
I have a 1989 suburban that typically gets 11 mpg similar to my buddies 2007 2500 hd chevy pickup. Lately i bought a efie from this site and used it with a homemade water/methonal bubbler that goes in between the pcv valve on the rocker cover and the tbi pcv inlet on the base of the tbi. After running a week at .300mv my mileage went down to 8.2mpg. I guess this is good because it shows the bubbler working, but bad in mileage. Im going to set it now at .200mv. has anyone had any experience with this set up?

Also has anyone been able to find a place online that carries all the parts to make a HyCo 2a and 2dt. Eagle doesnt sell them anymore and they dont list a supplier.

im also looking to make a cheap water injection/methonal injection for my turbo diesel engine. can anyone help. i need some place i can just order the parts because i work two jobs, dont have much spare time to be wandering around parts stores and trying the pay for the kids private school while trying to not lose my house.

thanks
chris
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12-14-2008 07:34 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #2
RE: simple water/methonal injection with efie
77 chevy k30 Wrote:I have a 1989 suburban that typically gets 11 mpg similar to my buddies 2007 2500 hd chevy pickup. Lately i bought a efie from this site and used it with a homemade water/methonal bubbler that goes in between the pcv valve on the rocker cover and the tbi pcv inlet on the base of the tbi. After running a week at .300mv my mileage went down to 8.2mpg. I guess this is good because it shows the bubbler working, but bad in mileage. Im going to set it now at .200mv. has anyone had any experience with this set up?

Also has anyone been able to find a place online that carries all the parts to make a HyCo 2a and 2dt. Eagle doesnt sell them anymore and they dont list a supplier.

im also looking to make a cheap water injection/methonal injection for my turbo diesel engine. can anyone help. i need some place i can just order the parts because i work two jobs, dont have much spare time to be wandering around parts stores and trying the pay for the kids private school while trying to not lose my house.

thanks
chris
text or call
216 255 7672
cq200175@yahoo.com

Chris:

As Bill Clintn used to say: "I feel your pain". It's nice to see someone experimenting with water/methanol injection with an EFIE but I don't see how an injection of water/methanol will lean out your A/F mixture such that you need an EFIE to tell the ECU you're mixture is too lean [like HHO would do] and thus to NOT increase the pulse width signal to the injectors. In view of your financial circumstances it looks like you need to save money and sacrifice the methanol experiments for better financial times. Having an '89 is a great benefit to gaining mpg with HHO. Let me respectfully suggest that you get on e-bay this Dec.23 and bid on one of the 21 plate dry cells that should put out enough HHO for you to get a decent mpg increase. The reason for Dec.23 is there's almost no bidders on e-bay during a holiday and chances of picking up a good deal is significantly increased. Make sure it's a dry cell using 316L stainless steel and the seller has a good rep. on e-bay. Hate to put a wet blanket on your methanol experiments but I think you'd agree with me that family comes first and the more you can save on gas the better. These low gas prices won't last. We should use this hiatus to perfect our HHO methodology to further increase mpg. Good Luck.
12-14-2008 08:21 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #3
RE: simple water/methonal injection with efie
If you're running over 50% ethanol/methanol, you can use an efie, but it's not an option for most vehicles with less than that.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
12-14-2008 08:49 PM
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77 chevy k30 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: simple water/methonal injection with efie
colchiro Wrote:If you're running over 50% ethanol/methanol, you can use an efie, but it's not an option for most vehicles with less than that.

Im running 50% water and 50% ethanol/methanol. My first fuel up running at .300mv got me 8.9mpg. Before using the EFIE, i was getting 11.2-11.4 mpg. I set my EFIE now to .200 mv. I will post my new MPG.

As for using a electrolyzer, everyhthing i had researched through Roy McAllister and Steven Harris says that electrolyzers consume more energy then they produce because of the engineered inefficiencies of the current production alternators. Check out Roy and Steve on their Hydrogen H2 Car and Multi Fuel DVD, he breaks down the physical calculations on paper for anyone to see and work out themselves. Currently the top three ways to make hydrogen is by using a Solar Sterling Engine to produce electricity for a electrolyzer (most effiecent engine-in video), buying hydrogen(if u can get asupplier to fill a 5000-10000psi tank in your area). Using ur already existing natural gas from ur home in conjunction with a home gas compressor to fill ur tanks at homeArticle in DieselMag.com).

Or increase ur fuel efficiency by using a fuel vapor system that vaporizes gas or diesel. land record for a gallon of gas stands at something like 1100mpg/ thats one gallon of gas turn into vapors.

check out these pics of fuel effiecency contests sponsored by big oil in the 60's and 70's getting 150 to 350mpg.
http://www.byronwine.com/files/ShellP222.pdf.pdf

heres a guy in Australia that has a electomagnet motor that will run forever with one twist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efCelx7qe...re=related

heres another guy that invented a no fuel engine
http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/image...spaper.jpg
12-19-2008 02:13 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #5
RE: simple water/methonal injection with efie
Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear.

If half of your fuel is ethanol/methanol you can use an efie. In other words 1/2 gasoline, 1/2 alcohol.

You can try it your way, but it's possible you might be too lean with an efie and you'd have to make that determination.

Rick

Links: Documents / Tuning for Mileage | Toyota Sensors | Autoshop Sensor Tutorials
12-19-2008 02:50 PM
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thomasbala Offline
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Post: #6
RE: simple water/methonal injection with efie
77 chevy k30 Wrote:
colchiro Wrote:If you're running over 50% ethanol/methanol, you can use an efie, but it's not an option for most vehicles with less than that.

Im running 50% water and 50% ethanol/methanol. My first fuel up running at .300mv got me 8.9mpg. Before using the EFIE, i was getting 11.2-11.4 mpg. I set my EFIE now to .200 mv. I will post my new MPG.

As for using a electrolyzer, everyhthing i had researched through Roy McAllister and Steven Harris says that electrolyzers consume more energy then they produce because of the engineered inefficiencies of the current production alternators. Check out Roy and Steve on their Hydrogen H2 Car and Multi Fuel DVD, he breaks down the physical calculations on paper for anyone to see and work out themselves. Currently the top three ways to make hydrogen is by using a Solar Sterling Engine to produce electricity for a electrolyzer (most effiecent engine-in video), buying hydrogen(if u can get asupplier to fill a 5000-10000psi tank in your area). Using ur already existing natural gas from ur home in conjunction with a home gas compressor to fill ur tanks at homeArticle in DieselMag.com).

Or increase ur fuel efficiency by using a fuel vapor system that vaporizes gas or diesel. land record for a gallon of gas stands at something like 1100mpg/ thats one gallon of gas turn into vapors.

check out these pics of fuel effiecency contests sponsored by big oil in the 60's and 70's getting 150 to 350mpg.
http://www.byronwine.com/files/ShellP222.pdf.pdf

heres a guy in Australia that has a electomagnet motor that will run forever with one twist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efCelx7qe...re=related

heres another guy that invented a no fuel engine
http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/image...spaper.jpg

Chris:
There are those that do and those that read how to do. Do you really think everyone on this board is lying about their mpg gains with HHO? Look at the number of posts on this board. Is this just a charade for people with nothing better to do? Harris and McAllister are right if you're trying to actually use HHO as a fuel, but, that's not what we're doing. You may want to read the docs on this board to see how it works and why it works. Why don't you stop reading and start doing HHO. Bet you'll surprise yourself. While you're reading check out quantum physics; it absolutely defies and contradicts Newtonian physics but the principals of quantum physics have been proven time and time again, not by readers but by doers.
12-19-2008 03:17 PM
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77 chevy k30 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: simple water/methonal injection with efie
The difference between u and i is that id rather do the extensive research before sacrificing my hard earned money to potentially be thrown out of the window. Part of being a good researcher is investigating all options available and determining which route is best. Just because everyone jumps of a cliff doesnt mean i will. I choose to think and question first, also taking the word of someone that has a higher degree of education and experience in the subject at hand doesnt hurt as well.

I never said that hho electrolyzers didnt work. I said from the research out there including the grandfather of hydrogen Roy McAllister and partner Steven Harris, explain that the amount of electrical energy needed to be produced by the altenator is far less then the amount of energy that has to be generated by the engine to produce the HHO.

I would rather take the extra time to calculate the right move the first time then, make multiple mistakes hoping to eventually hit my target.

Lastely unlike u i dont have 128 hours of free time a week to waste on multiple projects when im working two jobs. I need to find the best possible scenarios that i fit into my schedule and work around, and not waste time or money on dead end projects.
12-24-2008 08:35 PM
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Gary Offline
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Post: #8
RE: simple water/methonal injection with efie
77: While I agree with your reasoning, I think that what Thomas tried to point out is that we aren't violating the newtonian law of thermodynamics. Since our use of HHO isn't as a fuel, but rather a catalyst, the loss of efficiency in the transition is offset by the increase of efficiency in the combustion process.
Most of the time. From anecdotal evidence, late model Chevy and Dodge can be ugly customers. There are others, in a link I usually post, but I'm not home right now.
12-25-2008 01:11 AM
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77 chevy k30 Offline
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Post: #9
Mileage Update RE: simple water/methonal injection with efie update
Here is my latest fuel mileage 12.8445 mpg@.200mv.

A recap my regular mileage for my 1989 suburban has been around 11mpg (11.2 - 11.4) generally. But now in the winter with a remote start is tends to drop a couple tenths depending how long and often i use my remote start. Vehicle 1989 suburban 4x4 350ci engine.

Virgin run-My first/previous mileage was 8.4mpg@.300mv with a 50/50 water and ethanol bubler run inbetween the pcv valve and the tbi base plate.

2nd run-I know acheived 12.8445mpg and i have alot of idle time since my last fuel up because in the past two weeks there were a few days it got pretty cold and ive let the remote start run awhile and multiple times in a single day. I figure that i ran my remote start 3 to 4 times daily at each job. my programmed run time is about 8 mins each start, sometimes the remote start would time out and i would have to restart. also used the 4 wheel drive a couple times as well. So if i never ran my remote start im sure it would be at least 13mpg or slightly higher.

My new setting is now .175mv, ill keep a post next fuel up.

ps... noticed no change in coolant temp. temps are the same as before EFIE install.
12-28-2008 12:43 PM
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colchiro Offline
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Post: #10
RE: simple water/methonal injection with efie
Unless you're south of the Mason Dixon line, I'd expect your winter mileage to drop a couple mpg, not just a couple tenths. Maybe my definition of "winter" is different from yours.
12-28-2008 12:56 PM
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