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ultrasonic fogger in gasoline. this looks good
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hhofox Offline
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Post: #21
RE: ultrasonic fogger in gasoline. this looks good
Hey guys, just wanted to run this idea by you a bit. From what I have been reading, when you get an ultrasonic transducer (UT) which is for use in water applications, you have to modify it a bit for it to be used in gasoline. Now, since gas is lighter than water, why not put BOTH into the reservoir? Basically, you'd have say water, covering the UT by about 1 inch, and the other inch, would be the gasoline, floating on top? You could supply both the water and the gasoline by tubes: the water tube running all the way to the bottom of the container, while the gas tube would be touching the top. That way, there would be very little disruption when either liquid is being added (which would be done slowly if you set them to drip little-by-little). Does this solve the problem?

Also, I think that there are some UTs which are used in pest control, so those would already be exposed to oil-based compounds, making mods unnecessary, right?

Please let me know what you think about these ideas.
08-13-2012 07:43 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #22
RE: ultrasonic fogger in gasoline. this looks good
I personally don't like the idea of mixing the gas and the water in the same container. But making both water and gas mist should be a very powerful combination.

I haven't heard of any modifications being needed for using a transducer in gas. But I also haven't heard of any long term testing - which would be needed to expose any weak seals that can be attacked by gas. I think you're on the right track using the ones for pesticides.

Have you found any of them that use 12 volts natively? I found some when I was googling for them a while back, but can't recall anything about them. I've been watching your posts, hoping you'll find some good products.

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08-13-2012 10:54 AM
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hhofox Offline
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Post: #23
RE: ultrasonic fogger in gasoline. this looks good
I am trying to get in touch with the places that should have them, but it seems like people hardly know anything about UTs. I just ask for foggers, and the pest control crowd has been pointing me in circles.
I do believe that the rubber gasket inside the device may be broken down by gasoline over time. Also, there is a video on youtube wherein the responses state that the UT does not operate in gas unless you modify the sensor for continuous operation. That's why I'd really like to get my hands on one of the pesticide version.
08-13-2012 12:00 PM
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hhofox Offline
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Post: #24
RE: ultrasonic fogger in gasoline. this looks good
Update! Well, I went to the ONLY place that I could find with the actual UT in stock and I happened to get the last one. Actually, they had two types, the one with the lights and remote control, and the one without (for much less). I got the latter. They tested it, and it is firing. THe only problem is this: it uses AC24V, 1050mA. Yep, I said AC! So if I want to use it in the car, I'll need and inverter! A quick check yielded a small one rated at 400Watts, costing $5,500 plus 16.5% tax. The UT itself was $3,351 after tax. (For U.S. prices, use $86 to $1 USD). This is getting expensive when you factor in the other stuff I bought before.
For now though, I am gonna test it with water. I am gonna send it through my air intake, into the air cleaner and see what happens. I'll keep you posted.
I wanna try the gas + water combo too. Time will tell when happens.
08-14-2012 10:00 AM
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Dantec Offline
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Post: #25
RE: ultrasonic fogger in gasoline. this looks good
(08-14-2012 10:00 AM)hhofox Wrote:  Update! Well, I went to the ONLY place that I could find with the actual UT in stock and I happened to get the last one. Actually, they had two types, the one with the lights and remote control, and the one without (for much less). I got the latter. They tested it, and it is firing. THe only problem is this: it uses AC24V, 1050mA. Yep, I said AC! So if I want to use it in the car, I'll need and inverter! A quick check yielded a small one rated at 400Watts, costing $5,500 plus 16.5% tax. The UT itself was $3,351 after tax. (For U.S. prices, use $86 to $1 USD). This is getting expensive when you factor in the other stuff I bought before.
For now though, I am gonna test it with water. I am gonna send it through my air intake, into the air cleaner and see what happens. I'll keep you posted.
Great... try water and methenol ... 300ml water to 100ml methenol so it doesent freeze and better bang. i tested this in my freezer
I wanna try the gas + water combo too. Time will tell when happens.
08-14-2012 04:26 PM
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Dantec Offline
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Post: #26
RE: ultrasonic fogger in gasoline. this looks good
As I'm reading more on these foggers I see that the o rings are replaceable ... Sweet!! So I think a 3 disk will be enough for now. When I can afford one. (138.00 on my Bizrate app). I'll take it apart and go to my local hydraulic shop and they can match the o-rings up with neoprene ones. Now the cord may not like gas or diesel. I've been experimenting with a product "Devcon"
It's a liquid metal like "JB weld" . Maybe jbweld is save with gas/diesel but I know Devcon is. I sealed my gas tank with it 3-4 yrs ago and still holding.
Coat the wires with this stuff . Hope this helps
08-14-2012 07:01 PM
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hhofox Offline
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Post: #27
RE: ultrasonic fogger in gasoline. this looks good
You HOPE this helps? Of course it does! Many thanks! I knew that the rings were replaceable, but had not yet researched just what to replace it with, much less where to get the replacement. Now, I have something to work with, thanks to your suggestions. Note though, that the sensor prevents the unit from working in gas unless you ground one side of it to the metal casing. That is why I was gonna fill it with water up to the sensor level (tested the auto shut-off level last night) and then gas above that. In fact, I think the gas can occupy the next inch or so above the water level. That should allow vaporization of BOTH the liquids.

Mike has expressed concerns about vaporizing both water and gasoline together, but if I ensure that no oxygen enters the mixture, shouldn't it be safe?

Otherwise, I was thinking that I could put a tiny plastic bottle of water or something around the sensor itself and seal it shut. That way, I could fill the container with gasoline and it would still work. Also, I figure that with filtered gasoline entering the chamber, the disc inside the fogger should last longer than it would with water.

I don't know about "Devcon" -I'll have to research that. Maybe I'll just use JBWeld instead, we'll have to see what's available out here.
Oh, I forgot to explain my gameplan. Here it goes...
I read an article which said that cracking gasoline, then adding water vapour (as steam) makes other gasses which cause a greater reaction.
HCS is a simple way to crack gasoline, while it can also be used to turn water into steam.
If I use the UT to vaporize both of them, then feed them through my HCS's heated copper lines, I should get the desired effect, right?

Now if I use the HCS method, I would be able to get the desired effect as well. I think that I should be able to get a better effect if I use the UT to do the same thing. I only need to get an inverter to test it out in the car, while driving.
I would then allow the air to get into the engine via my intake manifold, as well as my vacuum port. That way, it'd always be getting the vapour.
So what do you guys think? Can you improve upon the plan?
Another thing I wanted to find out is this: for each of you...what type of gasoline do they sell in your area? Does it have additives? In my area they sell e10 gasoline at both 87 and 90 octane. I read that the additives end up gunking up/coating certain gas saving devices, so I wanted to know what effects, if any you had experienced after some time -when that gunk should have already built up. Did your mileage change or anything?
In order to combat this, I was thinking of stuffing my copper tubing with coarse steel wool -increasing the heated surface area that the vapour must pass over. This should improve the cracking, as well as fight the effects of additives. What's your view.
(This ended up being a LOT, but you can answer in stages if you like.)
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2012 06:59 AM by hhofox.)
08-15-2012 06:19 AM
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mike Offline
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Post: #28
RE: ultrasonic fogger in gasoline. this looks good
You can get an inverter at your local department store for about $30. I got one that was about 400W for that much at a local chain here in Oregon called "Fred Meyers". Auto parts stores will also have them.

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08-15-2012 07:09 AM
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Dantec Offline
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Post: #29
RE: ultrasonic fogger in gasoline. this looks good
Hhofox. These are great ideas. Just start simple and don't mix things so if you get results your not quite sure what made the gain...
Here's my idea for a fogger holder .
Just use black 3" abs pipe about a inch or so higher than your fogger. And drill a hole for your level sensor switch just where u want your fluid to stop rising. Omega.com lvu-a713 will work. I have two here and haven't hooked them up till I'm done testing. Make your water vapor work than make a twin unit for gas .
About the steal fiber in lines??? I tried that and lost alot of flow so use it spareingly in your lines if you do. When I make my water vapor unit I think I'll put it real close to the intake so it doesent go to droplets in the lines
08-15-2012 07:45 AM
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hhofox Offline
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Post: #30
RE: ultrasonic fogger in gasoline. this looks good
Thanks for the idea regarding the housing for the fogger. I plan to use a thick glass jar to house it at first so I can actually see how much vapour is being made/consumed, as well as what's taking place. The liquid level sensor you suggested looks great spec-wise, but the cost is too much for me. It did get me thinking though -and that's something I always appreciate!
I was thinking about the sealing of the unit and it was suggested that I use red gas-resistant silicone to seal the wires, as well as the ring inside the UT. That way, I wouldn't need to hunt down extra stuff, just use the gasoline resistant silicone to cover the wires, then smear it all over the gasket inside the fogger, re-assemble it, and I should be good to go. It should be chugging away just fine in gasoline after that! What are your thoughts on this guys?
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2012 12:52 PM by hhofox.)
08-16-2012 12:50 PM
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